SAG ULB - Do you have to be a LLC, DBA or etc?

Azmyth

Azmyth

Veteran
I'm a very small production company. I run the show.

I'm doing my next feature under the SAG ULB because 4 of my cast members are SAG, and I want to follow the rules and such. I'm already doing paperwork, but its asking if I am a LLC, DBA etc. But there are also options for individual. Do I have to be an LLC to even use this? (That cost more money to get).

Anybody with experience with this? I asked my SAG rep, but she just told me I should be an LLC and didn't really give a good reason for it.
 
Simply put -- you would be insane to sign the contract personally, or as a DBA. If you're going to sign the contract, form a corporation or, likely better, an LLC and use that. If you can't afford to put that layer of legal protection between you and the biggest, most powerful actors' union on the planet, then you simply cannot afford to use SAG at all.
 
Azmyth said:
I'm a very small production company. I run the show.

I'm doing my next feature under the SAG ULB because 4 of my cast members are SAG, and I want to follow the rules and such. I'm already doing paperwork, but its asking if I am a LLC, DBA etc. But there are also options for individual. Do I have to be an LLC to even use this? (That cost more money to get).

Anybody with experience with this? I asked my SAG rep, but she just told me I should be an LLC and didn't really give a good reason for it.
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Here's a link that describes setting up an LLC in Georgia...

http://nolonow.nolo.com/noe/popup/NNLLCGABAS_faq.html

There's an ad for creating a Georgia LLC for $125 list price, but $89 'special'... I'd look into it...

There are some types of 'free' lawyer hotline services, that will answer 'simple' legal questions for free, for some number of minutes, like 15... so if you have some simple legal questions that may be a way to have them answered without paying bux for official lawyering.

In case you've never noticed it... many, many big time productions create a corporation for the production of the film, which protects those involved to the level that the law allows, such that only that corporation's assets are in question if litigation arises.
 
I've got my LLC formed, now I'm trying to determine if "workers comp insurance and liability insurance" is required?
 
Yes, if you pay people they are your employees and you legally have to withhold taxes and pay for a workers comp plan. A lot of people try to "fake it" by pretending everyone is an independent contractor, but the IRS definition will zing you and you'll be on the hook for what you owed plus penalties. Likewise for workers comp, if you don't pay it and any of your cast/crew are injured even AFTER your production they can come after you to collect what you should have paid plus penalties. On my ULB short with SAG we used PayReel which made the whole process very easy, protected us, and cost very little. Considering we didn't have the expertise in house it was the best way to proceed.
 
Also be aware that SAG is going to want a deposit of money for the actors in an account. Even on our ULB we had to provide this and it locked up the money for awhile. Plan ahead. When you engage SAG you have to have the resources available.
 
I only had one, but you have to run ALL of your actors through SAG and file the paperwork and time sheets if you're using any.
 
I want to thank you, Azmyth and others in this thread, for telling us all of your personal hands-on experience of working under the ULB. So far, from what I've read, I can't say my rather negative impression has changed much. I'd rather avoid anything to do with SAG. Of course, the trouble is that most good actors are SAG. If I had the money or backing, I'm sure it would be no problem, but for us super-tiny indies on zero-budgets, it just is not an option, ULB or not.
 
Azmyth said:
A company quoted me 500-1000 for insurance for these actors..that's more than they are getting paid.. geez
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The easiest way to handle the hassles is to hire a payroll company, as Chris mentioned with ShowReel. When you use a payroll service, you yourself (or your company) are NOT, in fact, the employer of the actors. Instead, the payroll company is the employer, and they "loan" their employee services to you for a contract fee. They handle all welfare and pension and unemployment and FICA concerns... you pay one big check to them (which will be higher, of course, because you're paying them for their service) and then they handle all the miscellaneous details.
 
Barry_Green said:
The easiest way to handle the hassles is to hire a payroll company, as Chris mentioned with ShowReel. When you use a payroll service, you yourself (or your company) are NOT, in fact, the employer of the actors. Instead, the payroll company is the employer, and they "loan" their employee services to you for a contract fee. They handle all welfare and pension and unemployment and FICA concerns... you pay one big check to them (which will be higher, of course, because you're paying them for their service) and then they handle all the miscellaneous details.
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I see, this is actually making more sense to me now. I need to learn how all this works anyway so its good that I'm having to get into the nitty gritty of it. I talked to my agent and she gave me some info on some payroll companies here as well.
 
SAG brings a whole other layer of complexity to the process - especially for a one-man company who now has to track all that paperwork, etc. I found it painful for the 4 days of 1 SAG actor in my film. It seems they could do a whole better job on making the paperwork easier (like being online) and reducing it by half. In MA, an LLC requires yearly reports and $500 for the privilege. Don't forget that.

Michael
 
So, I've gotten some quotes from a few payroll services..

4 for sag actors, I came to 1000.00 estimated wages for the amount of time they'll be working.

The payroll company quoted me this..

Hello,

Here’s what we can do for you.

$1,000.00 Wages
$156.50 Payroll Taxes
$250.00 Workers Compensation Insurance
$168.00 SAG Pension & Health
$195.00 ABS Flat handling fee
$20.00 SAG P&H Reporting Fee
$1,789.50 Total

$1,800.00 Required Deposit amount that we will draw down from.


Does this sound like a fair deal?
 
Slightly off topic but does anyone know the deal for using SAG actors in a test pilot or TV sizzle reel?

Seems that if what's being shot will never be seen publicly (only for network exec presentations) that the rules may be different. I could be wrong here though. :-)
 
JonsMovies said:
Slightly off topic but does anyone know the deal for using SAG actors in a test pilot or TV sizzle reel?

Seems that if what's being shot will never be seen publicly (only for network exec presentations) that the rules may be different. I could be wrong here though. :-)
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I would be totally astonished if there was such a large loophole that a titanic production, naturally never to be seen outside a cabal of TV exec's..., would pass.

From what I read of the SAG rules, a SAG actor can't even work for free on their own project, nolo budget or bigger...
 
Azmyth said:
So, I've gotten some quotes from a few payroll services..

4 for sag actors, I came to 1000.00 estimated wages for the amount of time they'll be working.

The payroll company quoted me this..

Hello,

Here’s what we can do for you.

$1,000.00 Wages
$156.50 Payroll Taxes
$250.00 Workers Compensation Insurance
$168.00 SAG Pension & Health
$195.00 ABS Flat handling fee
$20.00 SAG P&H Reporting Fee
$1,789.50 Total

$1,800.00 Required Deposit amount that we will draw down from.


Does this sound like a fair deal?
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Well, there's nothing you can do about payroll taxes or the SAG pension & health contributions. $250 for worker's comp sounds high based on a $1,000 total wages package, but I don't know if you can find alternatives; obviously you should keep looking to see if that's fair.

Getting down to the $195 handling fee -- I'm presuming ABS is the payroll company? I think $195 for them handling all the hassle and assuming a lot of the liability, is a really modest fee. Percentage-wise it might seem like a lot, but seriously, they're going to be doing all the work for just $195, so how low could you expect it to go?

So it seems generally reasonable to me, but the worker's comp fee seems high. Best to get a second or third quote so you know for sure what your real costs should be.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, there's nothing you can do about payroll taxes or the SAG pension & health contributions. $250 for worker's comp sounds high based on a $1,000 total wages package, but I don't know if you can find alternatives; obviously you should keep looking to see if that's fair.

Getting down to the $195 handling fee -- I'm presuming ABS is the payroll company? I think $195 for them handling all the hassle and assuming a lot of the liability, is a really modest fee. Percentage-wise it might seem like a lot, but seriously, they're going to be doing all the work for just $195, so how low could you expect it to go?

So it seems generally reasonable to me, but the worker's comp fee seems high. Best to get a second or third quote so you know for sure what your real costs should be.
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Thanks Barry!

oddly enough I've had a tough time even getting quotes. I've contacted several and so far this is the only to give me any info. I'm a first timer on this so I'm not sure what is high and what isn't.
 
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