Control_Lab
Member
Re: Safe to use Sony Tapes?
Until buying my PAL DVX last month, nearly all my shooting was done on domestic Canon miniDV and Sony Digital8 cameras - used cheap Panasonic "Linear Plus" tapes in the mDV Canon and Sony HMPs for D8 - hardly ever took the tapes out until full ( typically they would be in the camera for a week or more ) - and NEVER had a single pixel drop out - NEVER ! - NOT ONE !! - and that's in 106 sonyHMPs and 57 mDVs Pana "LinearPlus" and 8 sony Premium - ( Just counted ! - sad life !! ).
Now with my DVX I use Panasonic "professional" 63PQ tapes and in the first month have had two single frame multi pixel dropouts and one single block dropout ( on three different tapes ) - I thought having spent so much on this wonderful piece of kit and Pro tapes that I would be safe from dropouts. - is it just that I've been lucky before ? surely not ? ! What's going on ?
Until buying my PAL DVX last month, nearly all my shooting was done on domestic Canon miniDV and Sony Digital8 cameras - used cheap Panasonic "Linear Plus" tapes in the mDV Canon and Sony HMPs for D8 - hardly ever took the tapes out until full ( typically they would be in the camera for a week or more ) - and NEVER had a single pixel drop out - NEVER ! - NOT ONE !! - and that's in 106 sonyHMPs and 57 mDVs Pana "LinearPlus" and 8 sony Premium - ( Just counted ! - sad life !! ).
Now with my DVX I use Panasonic "professional" 63PQ tapes and in the first month have had two single frame multi pixel dropouts and one single block dropout ( on three different tapes ) - I thought having spent so much on this wonderful piece of kit and Pro tapes that I would be safe from dropouts. - is it just that I've been lucky before ? surely not ? ! What's going on ?
ian lucero
Well-known member
Re: Safe to use Sony Tapes?
It seems there are 2 different users here. The DVX user that 'Captures' using a separate VTR (ie. DSR-11, another camera, etc.) and then there are users capturing using the same camera they shot on (this being the DVX100) as the player.
Maybe this is part of the confusion too. Some, maybe most, users can't afford a separate player to capture their footage and end up using their DVX to capture newly shot footaged along with older footage shot on other cameras with other brand tape.
My plan for when I get my DVX, as the safest way to go, is to stick with the stock I've been using since my TRV900 which is Sony Premiums.
I will be getting a Sony DSR11 as an external player to capture/play all new footage and existing Sony tape footage ONLY. Luckily I have a JVC miniDV deck that does an alright job of playing my other tapes (Panasonic, TDK, Maxell, Fuji). Not the optimal way to go, and the mess of different brands was a mix of my not having enough knowledge and lack of choice when shooting on the road.
I would like to use Panasonic PQ and MQ's for its what is made for the DVX. But since this is not my first camera, I'm SOL for brand to choose. Probably for higher quality tape I may choose more expensive Sony tape or DVcam tape. I've gone through too much headache to trust my new camera to gunk that not even a qualified engineer/repair person can explain and that they can't even repair with a simple head cleaning.
I hope that the DVX will have heads that are more 'pro' or at least stronger quality to withstand daily use with these 'wet' lubricant Sony tapes. Will Sony ever switch to 'dry' lube tapes? Probably as they should try to advance (with my knowledge from a poster stating 'wet' lube being old technology and 'dry' lube being newer and better technology) When that happens that may be an inconvenience for long time users of both Sony tape + DVX but a great convenience for newer users and folks new to digital video as they will have more choices in tape stock.
I would like to know what are the advantages of cleaning the heads yourself with liquid and "Q-tip" (i know, i know it really isn't a Qtip but the wooden stick with a Qtip-like tip) as oppose to using a tape-based cleaner. ALSO how exactly would you go about cleaning the heads the non-tape way? Will you need to take apart the DVX in any way? I've read about users doing this but it seems these are people that know what they are doing...
Thanks for all the information to make deciding easier.
It seems there are 2 different users here. The DVX user that 'Captures' using a separate VTR (ie. DSR-11, another camera, etc.) and then there are users capturing using the same camera they shot on (this being the DVX100) as the player.
Maybe this is part of the confusion too. Some, maybe most, users can't afford a separate player to capture their footage and end up using their DVX to capture newly shot footaged along with older footage shot on other cameras with other brand tape.
My plan for when I get my DVX, as the safest way to go, is to stick with the stock I've been using since my TRV900 which is Sony Premiums.
I will be getting a Sony DSR11 as an external player to capture/play all new footage and existing Sony tape footage ONLY. Luckily I have a JVC miniDV deck that does an alright job of playing my other tapes (Panasonic, TDK, Maxell, Fuji). Not the optimal way to go, and the mess of different brands was a mix of my not having enough knowledge and lack of choice when shooting on the road.
I would like to use Panasonic PQ and MQ's for its what is made for the DVX. But since this is not my first camera, I'm SOL for brand to choose. Probably for higher quality tape I may choose more expensive Sony tape or DVcam tape. I've gone through too much headache to trust my new camera to gunk that not even a qualified engineer/repair person can explain and that they can't even repair with a simple head cleaning.
I hope that the DVX will have heads that are more 'pro' or at least stronger quality to withstand daily use with these 'wet' lubricant Sony tapes. Will Sony ever switch to 'dry' lube tapes? Probably as they should try to advance (with my knowledge from a poster stating 'wet' lube being old technology and 'dry' lube being newer and better technology) When that happens that may be an inconvenience for long time users of both Sony tape + DVX but a great convenience for newer users and folks new to digital video as they will have more choices in tape stock.
I would like to know what are the advantages of cleaning the heads yourself with liquid and "Q-tip" (i know, i know it really isn't a Qtip but the wooden stick with a Qtip-like tip) as oppose to using a tape-based cleaner. ALSO how exactly would you go about cleaning the heads the non-tape way? Will you need to take apart the DVX in any way? I've read about users doing this but it seems these are people that know what they are doing...
Thanks for all the information to make deciding easier.
Z
Zoomforce
Guest
Re: Safe to use Sony Tapes?
As iamloser pointed out.. Different lubes make a huge difference in every situation they are used. No argument, that Tech guy was wrong. As for it not being an issue, personal experience and almost every single other person I have talked to that did mix them, really really screwed up thier camera, or if they where lucky just lost important footage.
tape based cleaners are just horrible. They are basically sand paper in DV case. Sure they do a good job of removing dirt, and a few microns of your head along with it.
To clean your heads manually, you dont need to take apart the camera, its really easy, but I would suggest paying a pro to do it in front of you first so you learn how to do it properly.
As for the tape thing.. Maxell and TDK are not good tapes to use, because they buy overstock or off other lines, so you dont know really what you are getting, although its rare for Sony to outsource. fuji are good, and Dry, and I used the DVCAM ones in my DVX for awhile, but at $20 a piece that ended quick.
As iamloser pointed out.. Different lubes make a huge difference in every situation they are used. No argument, that Tech guy was wrong. As for it not being an issue, personal experience and almost every single other person I have talked to that did mix them, really really screwed up thier camera, or if they where lucky just lost important footage.
tape based cleaners are just horrible. They are basically sand paper in DV case. Sure they do a good job of removing dirt, and a few microns of your head along with it.
To clean your heads manually, you dont need to take apart the camera, its really easy, but I would suggest paying a pro to do it in front of you first so you learn how to do it properly.
As for the tape thing.. Maxell and TDK are not good tapes to use, because they buy overstock or off other lines, so you dont know really what you are getting, although its rare for Sony to outsource. fuji are good, and Dry, and I used the DVCAM ones in my DVX for awhile, but at $20 a piece that ended quick.
Re: Safe to use Sony Tapes?
I have a PD-150, a DSR-11, and am getting a DVX100a. We have used several different types of tapes in the past both in the PD-150 and the DSR-11 and haven't had any problems. I have come to the conclusion that we need to pick a tape and stick with it for the most part on the DVX100a.
It sound like we should either go with a combinations of Pana 63MQ, Pana 63PQ and Fuji's or go strictly with Sony tapes. I think I prefer the first combination because of cost and cost flexibility.
Does it make sense to switch to these same tapes on the PD-150 as well? If so, is this going to cause a problem in the DSR-11, because we have to go back to archive tapes regularly due to the nature of the projects we work on. Is the head on the DSR-11 more resistant to these types of problems than on the cameras? We do almost all of our computer work via the deck, not the cameras.
FYI, the PD-150 has run Sony, Panasonic, Maxell, JVC and Fuji and has over 250 tape hours on it with no problems. We have used mainly Panasonic and Sony, but have been back and forth quite a bit.
The DSR-11 started artifacting a while back and we couldn't figure it out, We sent it in for service and they said they couldn't find the problem. I guess they may have cleaned the head and then tested it and that took the junk off the head which took care of the problem before they tested it. We did run a head-cleaning tape, which didn't help any (although I am finding now that it is best not to use those), so I don't know if that makes a difference.
Thanks for any input.
I have a PD-150, a DSR-11, and am getting a DVX100a. We have used several different types of tapes in the past both in the PD-150 and the DSR-11 and haven't had any problems. I have come to the conclusion that we need to pick a tape and stick with it for the most part on the DVX100a.
It sound like we should either go with a combinations of Pana 63MQ, Pana 63PQ and Fuji's or go strictly with Sony tapes. I think I prefer the first combination because of cost and cost flexibility.
Does it make sense to switch to these same tapes on the PD-150 as well? If so, is this going to cause a problem in the DSR-11, because we have to go back to archive tapes regularly due to the nature of the projects we work on. Is the head on the DSR-11 more resistant to these types of problems than on the cameras? We do almost all of our computer work via the deck, not the cameras.
FYI, the PD-150 has run Sony, Panasonic, Maxell, JVC and Fuji and has over 250 tape hours on it with no problems. We have used mainly Panasonic and Sony, but have been back and forth quite a bit.
The DSR-11 started artifacting a while back and we couldn't figure it out, We sent it in for service and they said they couldn't find the problem. I guess they may have cleaned the head and then tested it and that took the junk off the head which took care of the problem before they tested it. We did run a head-cleaning tape, which didn't help any (although I am finding now that it is best not to use those), so I don't know if that makes a difference.
Thanks for any input.