Richard Allen Crook
Well-known member
The F65 has this new, improved s-log version that apparently provides more dynamic range than its predecessor. Any speculation as to if this will be offered to F3 owners? Seems lke a viable possibility....
S-Log2: a newer, improved s-log
- Thread starter Richard Allen Crook
- Start date
Nate Weaver
Veteran
My understanding of the F65 new firmware notes was that a modified S-Log was necessary because of the extra latitude the F65 sensor captures beyond the 800% (12-ish stops) the original S-Log was designed for.
So my guess is the F3 won't get it, because it wouldn't need it.
So my guess is the F3 won't get it, because it wouldn't need it.
bill totolo
Veteran
It's a new sensor so wouldn't it benefit from an S-Log profile designed specifically to it?
wannabeapilot
Well-known member
man that cam sounds soooooooo nice! 
starcentral
Veteran
I had a sneak peak at the F65 at an cinematographer meeting last year. Has anyone here seen the actual size of it? I don't see how it would be all that practical:
starcentral
Veteran
Incase anyone doesn't know, that huge box on the back (SRW-R1) is a 10-bit 4:4:4 (with 12 bit option) external recorder. So obviously it gets smaller with a fixed prime lense, but still.....
Keep in mind the F65 is a true 8k/4k camera with mechanical shutter. This is quite different from the RED Epic design.
Keep in mind the F65 is a true 8k/4k camera with mechanical shutter. This is quite different from the RED Epic design.
scocklin
Well-known member
I keep wondering if the Sony F65 is going to start taking business away from the Alexia? Or maybe it is just when.
starcentral
Veteran
I think when it comes to that specific industry (hollywood studio films) nobody wants to be an early adopter, it took a while for RED to get into mainstream and gain acceptance, even the Alexia cams originally. The F65 is over engineered, who seriously needs to shoot with a 8k sensor and 12-bit 444 output?
Fohdeesha
Well-known member
Thanks kind of a silly remark... Hollywood films are still having a hard to adapting to RED, they are more keen to heading to Sony or Arri since thats what they have been using for years. Most hollywood motion picture films being made up until last year were shot with Film, Sony F35, or Arri Alexa. There were a handfull of actual Hollywood films shot on RED but not many.
A few block busters here and there were shot with RED, but most were still film or Sony F35. The Sony F65 answers to productions that have a proven track record with the studios and companies AKA Sony and/or Arri. The F65 is not over engineered at all... have you even worked with it? How can you make such a claim?
I've had a full hands on lessons from Sony with their new F65 and its if anything more simple than ever before. The menu is like Alexa, you can jump right to the most important settings right away on the body, no diving for menus.
The mechanical shutter is a MUST for any action/Adventure/Suspense films using handheld or action work. It brings a true global shutter without skew. The 8K sensor debayers to a 4K output in 16bit (not 12) Which is what you'd want for any heavy hollywood motion picture... This isnt a DSLR camera, it's a freaking Cinema camera for the best of the best.
Eventually 8K will be possible which is like a digital IMAX camera, this will be used for IMAX projection and other specialty screenings.
So I dont know where you came off with those statements, but I can assure anyone that camera is VERY well engineered, and actually quite light as well considering the replacement was for a film Arri 535B/A or Panavision film camera which would weight 10x that.
and yes the F65 is starting to hurt Alexa for feature film, for productions wanting/needing 4K and not wanting to go RED, they had no other options available... The F65 brings a trusted company (Sony) to allow 4k capture. Alexa is also tried and true, but with the limit of 2k. Now high SFX films have an option to go 4K without diving into the RED world.
I do believe that Alexa 4K is not far away though, and they will soon be all nipping at each others heels, and finally the Panasonic 4K camera will be thrown into the mix within the next year which will also be an s35mm size sensor, so RED will not really be a special nitch anymore.
8K is not really useful for feature films in regular theaters, but for IMAX and IMAX 3D setups this will be needed. We are hitting the treshold of being able to see any higher resolution than 8K though. After 8K on an IMAX screen, any more resolution will be a waste. There's only so much the human eye can resolve, and 8K seems to be the limit on the super large IMAX screens. So pretty soon the whole resolution war will be gone and they'll have to duke it out with something else (smell-o-vision!)
I do believe that Alexa 4K is not far away though, and they will soon be all nipping at each others heels, and finally the Panasonic 4K camera will be thrown into the mix within the next year which will also be an s35mm size sensor, so RED will not really be a special nitch anymore.
8K is not really useful for feature films in regular theaters, but for IMAX and IMAX 3D setups this will be needed. We are hitting the treshold of being able to see any higher resolution than 8K though. After 8K on an IMAX screen, any more resolution will be a waste. There's only so much the human eye can resolve, and 8K seems to be the limit on the super large IMAX screens. So pretty soon the whole resolution war will be gone and they'll have to duke it out with something else (smell-o-vision!)
starcentral
Veteran
No one said it was poorly engineered or not well engineered, and no one has certainly denied what the camera can deliver according to its specs; 10/12/16 bit output, rolling mechanical shutter option, 8k sensor, etc..
My point is with 85% of movies now being shot digitally instead of film, there is little left to make a major or compelling reason for everyone to jump on the F65 band-wagon, that was my point. Yes the F65 is a great camera, but technology has come so far with many other cinema (and non-cinema) cameras now that who cares about the F65. Sure the "major studios" might but what percentage of all films to they actually represent worldwide? Not much.
And by the way skew is not entirely eliminated by a mechanical shutter, just minimized.
Richard Allen Crook
Well-known member
Guess my thread has derailed. Amazes me that a non RED thread turning into a RED debate. Ugh
Anyway, I wouldn't be suprised if, after a few months of offering Slog for free on the f3, that they offer an Slog 2 with more dynamic range or something...for a price. Some seem to think it isn't possible...but I'm not so sure. But I'm not an engineer.
Anyway, I wouldn't be suprised if, after a few months of offering Slog for free on the f3, that they offer an Slog 2 with more dynamic range or something...for a price. Some seem to think it isn't possible...but I'm not so sure. But I'm not an engineer.
Douglas Villalba
Well-known member
I was ready to buy the $899 SLog just to have it just in case a client requested it, but i'll wait for the free version now.
I wouldn't dismiss the idea that an SLog II maybe in the works also.
"over engineered" was the quote so yes... thats what I said originally as my rebuttle.
and secondly... where are you getting your numbers from??? thats just simply wrong information you have there, 90% of feature films in the theaters ARE major studio films. Then the rest are indipendant which doesn't mean they are $200,000 movies... they are still a few million to make, and mostly shot with the SAME gear the big studios use. It's all rentals, and I've personally been on some VERY low budget features that will be coming out this year and next with budgets of $300,000 and they are STILL shooting on film...
I think you're forgetting how much hold Sony has in the film industry, most 4K projectors in the over 13,000 new digital cinemas around the USA alone are SONY 4K projectors. Their technology is an overwhelming part of the industry. Not to mention one of the biggest studios in film is Sony Pictures, which also owns a lot of other studios, who which all will most definitely be shooting with F65 cameras and film. I'm sorry but your numbers aren't right, I can post a fact sheet if you'd like of the numbers of studio films and what their % are world wide for theatrical release.
Stating that no one will care about the F65 is just silly to me because then I can say ... No one will care about RED, no one will care about, Alexa... come on now, thats just not being factual at all.
Grug
Veteran
I'll be interested to see the theatrical output from the F65, the sample footage I saw at the product roadshow screening really wasn't all that nice-looking, freakishly detailed, but not very pretty.
I'm still yet to see a digital image (at any resolution) that I've found more attractive than Alexa's.
I'm still yet to see a digital image (at any resolution) that I've found more attractive than Alexa's.
starcentral
Veteran
Yes over-engineered in the sense that with the THOUSANDS of RED cameras, Alexa, F900's, etc... already out there in use and in production with cinematic results what is the TRUE need to shoot beond 2k or with an 8k sensor for 4k acquisition when they are already getting that? The reasons just don't seem that compelling to me. Only 400 F65's were pre-ordered (if those numbers even correct) which is hardly a dent on the rest of the digital cinema cameras already out there - that's all I'm saying.
Re-read my post, I questioned what percentage of all films are actually studio films not if they are in the theatres or not.
What is actually worth posting is from ALL (READ THE WORD ALL) digital films shot in 2012 which actual camera's were used... that I would be curious to see. I bet it will be Alexa and RED followed by Sony.......