Run and Gun Camcorder

T

TheFarmer

Member
Hello,

With the new world of DSLR's, regular camcorder information has become few and far between. I have searched over the hills and through the woods for some quality help with no avail. I am here in search of that. I am looking for help deciding with a pro(sumer) camcorder. I would like to stick to Sony or Panasonic or Canon (pretty much anything except JVC). Most likely I will be buying used off of ebay, craigslist, or maybe even here. I would really like an EX1 but that is way out of my budget. I am mostly doing events, I might do weddings if I am asked. I like to make short films so 24p would be nice. I have a 60d but that isn't really suitable for my needs of fast pace scenes with all of its manual controls. What I need:

XLR inputs: I have a Rode NTG2 that I will either use on a boom or on the camera.
Good zoom: I will need to do the classic low angle face in the camera shot (couldn't find any examples) I would also need to do close ups, and I need enough to do whip zooms.
No Tape Workflow: I would like to stay away from tapes. I might do it if I could find a firestore (or similar) for cheap.
ND Filters: I do a lot outside
Full HD: duh..
Top Handle w/ Mic Holder: For all of my mic holding needs

My budget isn't too much or too small so I pretty flexible.

Thank You!
 
Hi Farmer

I have much the same issues with run 'n gun cameras and after getting 2 x AC-130's I learnt very quickly that there are a couple of vital facts you need to look at carefully. Firstly are you shooting multi-cam at weddings and if so think about the constant attention you might have to give to two cameras running in manual!! The issues I had with the AC-130 were firstly the autofocus hunts badly and in autoiris the aperture range is tiny so you need to use both in manual. Running one camera on a tripod and shooting cutaways with a second cam (for you it would be your 60D?) is not easy if the camera cannot look after itself. Even with the 130 in manual focus I couldn't leave the camera in autoiris either as if a cloud came over, it needed an ND change and I wasn't there to do it!!
When I do weddings I really do need a camera that I can run in manual when I'm hovering over it BUT I can also snap into full auto when I busy elsewhere and it will look after itself!! I sold my AC-130's after 3 months as they just couldn't be left alone and went back to HMC82's which can run in full auto....If that's your scenario and you are hankering after Panasonics then grab either the HMC40 or 80 (add an XLR module to the 40) ...If you are an attentive operator and can look after the camera then an HMC150 will really please you !!! If you really want to cut with DSLR footage then also consider selling the 60D and grab an panny GH1 or GH2 ..they can easily be hacked to give an awesome bitrate and intercut well with the video cameras too...you might appreciate the no record limit on GH1's and GH2's as well. I really cannot see the point of going to HDV and also having to either use MiniDV tape or a Firestore but the bottom line is of course, your choice!!

Chris
 
I don' think of the 130/160 as much of a run and gun camera. I think of the 40 as a R&G camera.
With that said I agree that 130/160 needs constant baby sitting for it's short aperture range. something the new JVC says it has addressed.
 
I only put up with my AC130's for 3 months as all my work is events and Realty shooting. The big issue was mainly with the extremely limited aperture (that's why the cam has 4 manual ND filters) It's a great camera but yes, definately needs an operator full-time and run in full manual. What annoyed me was the fact that even at outdoor weddings I would have to do an ND change mid ceremony as the light changed!! That ends up as a nasty flash of light on your footage!!! The HMC40 is great as long as you include the XLR adapter with it and you want a small compact camera. I still use HMC80's simply because the shoulder mount is my kinda camera and the XLR's are awesome. However it IS big and bulky and clocks in around 8lbs!!! Now both the 40 and 80 have a huge aperture range plus auto shutter changes and a built-in ND changer so in auto iris you can go from indoors to outdoors and the camera will cope brilliantly!!! I also love the fact that the 80 has the same sort of EVF as the Sony EX-3 (a big LCD inside the housing with an eyepiece..it's rather low res but a joy to work with!!)

The big issue with 1/3rd CMOS chip cameras is for some unknown reason they start losing resolution at anything past F8 (hence to limited aperture range) but the JVC HM750 has CCD and has a much larger range plus it also has an instant shutter change button on the body so you can do shutter jumps too!! I'd seriously love an HM750 but it's out of my budget ..over here they are $7K with the Fuji lens and you still need expensive V-Lock battery packs and chargers. It probably has the best on shoulder balance of all the cameras!!

Chris
 
The HMC80 and the HM750 are too big for what I am looking for. I was thinking the size of like an EX1. I have found that bigger cameras are more intimidating and people will act shy around them.

maranfilms said:
the xha1s cuts well with the 60d, and you can find them for cheap. Grab a citidisc and now your cf card.
Click to expand...
I have looked more into it, I would get it other than the fact that it is tape based.
 
I have looked more into it, I would get it other than the fact that it is tape based.
Click to expand...

you can pick up a citidisc for about 300.00 which is a cf card recorder. works great with the xha1,s. and it's nice to have the tape for back up archieve. I know your on a budget, just thought it would be the cheapest but most effective way to go. The hvx200a is a great cam, and records to card as well. I think the A1, is a bit cheaper though.
 
TheFarmer said:
I think that I am going to go with the XHA1, I hope that is a good choice.
Click to expand...

So you can put up going back to MiniDV Tapes?

I bought my HMC-150 specifically because I wanted to permanently get away from shooting with tapes ever again. ( Sony EX-1 was my alternative choice, but it's twice the price of a HMC-150, even used it's still twice the price of a used HMC-150 )
 
Hi Dingo

I think the OP is planning to use something like a Firestore on the camera. The Canon uses outdated HDV technology (1440x1080) versus Full HD (1920x1080) with the HMC150 ....If it were me I would definately go for the 150 rather than the Canon!! Don't need to buy a Firestore either!!!

Chris
 
The deal fell through with the XHA1, so I am back to the drawing board. I have seen a lot of HVX's on ebay so in theory it should bring down the cost. If I could find a deal with P2 cards included, that would be good too.
 
TheFarmer said:
I have seen a lot of HVX's on ebay so in theory it should bring down the cost. If I could find a deal with P2 cards included, that would be good too.
Click to expand...

What about HMC-150's ? You get most of the same features as an HVX but can shoot with SDHC cards.
 
As a previous XHA1S owner I wouldn’t recommend it. Apart from not being true full HD, I found its low light performance to be poor, also I found a Rode mic if mounted to the camera would pick up the tape noise, finally I didn’t find it reliable with a Firestore.

If thinking about a run and gun Canon and being on a budget, what about the XF100?
 
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