(Rumored) Panasonic FF mirrorless

The attention to detail of shooting video, quality and ergonomics of the GH line with a FF sensor should be enough to excite a lot of people. My only concern would be the lens mount choice and how easily people will move t man obscure lens mount. I at least hope it can be adapted to EF lenses. Lots of GH users invested in m43 or EF glass.
 
That would indicate that like other vendors, they have done all they can with S35 and 4/3ds sensors. To keep the money rolling in, they need to take the next step to entice customers. So it's on to 8k video and full frame photography/video. At what point does it end? I know, the old Bill Gates alleged quote about no one every needing more than 640kbytes in a computer, but I'm really wondering how far cameras will go before they run out of ideas that will sell.
 
Thomas Smet said:
The attention to detail of shooting video, quality and ergonomics of the GH line with a FF sensor should be enough to excite a lot of people. My only concern would be the lens mount choice and how easily people will move t man obscure lens mount. I at least hope it can be adapted to EF lenses. Lots of GH users invested in m43 or EF glass.
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I would bet, like the EVA 1, they would "ride on" the popularity and availability of the EF mount. Rather than reinvent the wheel, they would continue on that path justifying that this new cam would be a good B cam to the EVA since they can interchange lenses.
 
Paul F said:
I know, the old Bill Gates alleged quote about no one every needing more than 640kbytes in a computer,....
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Apart from the fact he neve said that
It is pretty much true, most people no longer have a computer, they have a phone with an internet connection. :)
 
Ted Ramasola said:
I would bet, like the EVA 1, they would "ride on" the popularity and availability of the EF mount. Rather than reinvent the wheel, they would continue on that path justifying that this new cam would be a good B cam to the EVA since they can interchange lenses.
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GH5 and GH5s are already great B cams to the EVA1 when used with a focal reducer like the SpeedBooster. Not much gain there really. FOV and DOF are roughly equal as well in those conditions. In fact I would argue matching the s35mm size of the EVA1 makes the GH5 and GH5s more of a B cam status than a FF camera would.
 
I personally see this as a way for Panasonic to go beyond 20mp for stills and to meet their personal deadline of a 8k camera by 2020 for the Olympics. 8k on a m43 was always going to be tough to maintain somewhat decent low light performance.

This is also a way to solve the dilemma of cramming a G9, GH5 and Gh5s into a single camera. Solid ISO performance, larger pixels, IBIS, solid 10bit 4:2:2 formats and very high resolution stills without image tricks. The GH5s greatly improved the low light and brought m43 up to APS-C and in some cases FF levels but it had to sacrifice IBIS due to the image circle size. A FF camera could theoretically tick off every box. Camera could even hit that 8k video they are shooting for.

Talk about perfect timing right before the Pocket 4k ships.

I always knew it would be stupid simple for Panasonic to make a FF camera. Their only major hurdle was always going to be the lens mount and what do they do with their m43 market share. Much like Canon and Nikon had APS-C and FF models for years I think Panasonic will do the same with FF and m43. I may even stick with m43 for now since I don't exactly need FF. I can achieve almost everything a FF system can with the lens choices I have. The GH5s with a SpeedBooster XL is not all that far off from FF anyway. Again the main advantage with the FF camera is it should be able to do IBIS which is the most complained about aspect of the GH5s. It also means investing in new glass for me so I think the Gh5s will still be the director I go.

I am hoping this will drive down the prices of the GH5 and GH5s however. The FF camera needs to not be priced unrealistically given the established competition and if priced very well it could mean a price drop for the m43 cameras. One can hope at least. That combined with the popularity of the Pocket 4k and I think its a given the GH5s has to come down in price.
 
Greg_E said:
If it were me, I'd build a short flange length and make the dimensions and electrical/data connections available to everyone, then not worry about adapters to EF or PL, etc.
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They can't do that as it would potentially cannibalize their varicam sales. They did not even do that with EVA1 and that is a $6k camera...
 
I have always wished if only Panasonic would create a full frame version of the GH series. I do both photography and videography and that's why I never took the 4/3 serously. At the same time I am not please with Canon or Nikon and the features in their cameras are always lacking for videography. Sony seems to get it on feature and the A7III is a great example but when I held that camera it felt like a toy, too small and a horible grip. I was hopping Nikon would have two sd cards in the Z line but they bombed it. If this rumor is true I would absolutely love to support Panasonic as I already own their UX series video cameras and they are great and affordable. I hope the ergonomics and auto focus will be very competitive along with all the great features they already have in the GH5.
 
Olympus full frame mirrorless ?
The seven Full Frame lenses patented so far by Olympus

I went through all the most recent Olympus patents. Here I recap the seven Full Frame lens designs patented by Olympus in 2016-2017.

17mm f/1.4
20mm f/1.4
24mm f/1.4
28mm f/1.4
28mm f/2.0
35mm f/1.4
50mm f/.4

It might be that Olympus is just playing with the idea to go Full Frame but never actually will do the step into making a real product.
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https://www.43rumors.com/the-seven-full-frame-lenses-patented-so-far-by-olympus/
 
Full Frame sucks for digital video. Has everyone forgotten what shooting with the pre DPAF Canon 5D MKII and MKIII was like? The FOV, DOF and other issues were a nightmare from my experience.
I've heard the 5D MKIV works pretty well and looks good but FF has always been a compromise for video. For stills, I get it. For video? Meh. Very few people need it. Quite a few appear to want it.
 
I agree, the advantages of the greater DoF from m43 (and any sensor sub FF really) fair out weigh the benefit of the artistic use of shallow DoF from FF for video for me. Low Light thats a non issue these days, Colour - again, the GH5 to Joe Public looks the same as a Varicam. I think the next evolution in the < $3000 range will be more acceptance of RAW video and greater dynamic range than trying to use a FF sensor.

I can see why Panasonic would choose to go down this route, its a hard sell to sell a tiny sensor G9 stills camera for the same price as a FF A7 - so they have to move. Personally only having 43 and m43 cameras since my OM1 - I really won't buy a m43 camera these days for stills.

As to the lens mount, I see really their only choice is the Lecia mount, they have a good relationship with Lecia (I presume Panasonic provide most of the electronics behind all Lecia cameras) They can't bring in another, there is too many - Going EF or E-Mount (if licensable) would be great for the consumer, but then no one would buy Panasonic lenses and you would think there is good markup on lenses. So going the Lecia way, they already have 3rd party support - from a very prestigious name too.

Just not sure I can be burned again on lenses, going from OM to 43 and now m43. All these years I should of just got a Canon for stills...
 
puredrifting said:
Full Frame sucks for digital video. Has everyone forgotten what shooting with the pre DPAF Canon 5D MKII and MKIII was like? The FOV, DOF and other issues were a nightmare from my experience.
I've heard the 5D MKIV works pretty well and looks good but FF has always been a compromise for video. For stills, I get it. For video? Meh. Very few people need it. Quite a few appear to want it.
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As we discussed here many times. It is about lens selection. Only FF has such great lens selection - fast, stabilized, zooms, wide, long, everything. This is not problem of "war" FF vs S35 but that is what manufacturers do.

I am not talking about hi-end but about market where those FF mirrorless aim. I am using Tamron 15-30/2.8 IS, Canon 24-105/4 IS and 70-200/2.8 IS almost everyday. Simply there is no S35 equivalent on the market. So I welcome more FF options.
 
KrocanX said:
As we discussed here many times. It is about lens selection. Only FF has such great lens selection - fast, stabilized, zooms, wide, long, everything. This is not problem of "war" FF vs S35 but that is what manufacturers do.

I am not talking about hi-end but about market where those FF mirrorless aim. I am using Tamron 15-30/2.8 IS, Canon 24-105/4 IS and 70-200/2.8 IS almost everyday. Simply there is no S35 equivalent on the market. So I welcome more FF options.
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True enough, but the practicalities of shooting FF video often mean that you must close down the lens enough to get enough DOF to be practical to where you question why you have fast lenses when you can't use them wide open or even at 2.0/2.8. People are done with the 2" of DOF with a large portion of the frame radically out of focus that was popular ten years ago. I'll take the ability of the S35 imager to make shallow DOF when needed but also having enough DOF to make a shot actually look in focus any day over the soft, blobby mess that FF imagers present at a decent focal length with a lens wide open. Once again, for stills, it's a different game but for video, for these types of cameras (small, handheld, consumer) FF have more points against them than for them for the average user. I think it's different with the RED Monstro, C700 FF and Venice. With those cameras, you will typically have crews with ACs pulling focus, much more carefully planned, blocked and composed scenes where you can utilize that wider FOV and shallower DOF at longer focal lengths. I don't think many adequately crewed feature films are being shot with mirrorless FF cameras. It's much more about weddings, run & gun events and documentary coverage and for those types of shoots, FF is sub-par to S35 IMHO.
 
I see your points Pure, but stopping down on FF is just as easy as opening up a s35 sized sensor. (and cheaper) I like the combo of f4 lenses on a FF camera as you can get plenty shallow DOF but also shoot at f8 or f11 if you want more DOF. If one is looking for more than f11 then the switch to a normal video camera is probably more effective anyway. But, does DP autofocus work as well at f8 or f11?
 
puredrifting said:
True enough, but the practicalities of shooting FF video often mean that you must close down the lens enough to get enough DOF to be practical to where you question why you have fast lenses when you can't use them wide open or even at 2.0/2.8. People are done with the 2" of DOF with a large portion of the frame radically out of focus that was popular ten years ago. I'll take the ability of the S35 imager to make shallow DOF when needed but also having enough DOF to make a shot actually look in focus any day over the soft, blobby mess that FF imagers present at a decent focal length with a lens wide open. Once again, for stills, it's a different game but for video, for these types of cameras (small, handheld, consumer) FF have more points against them than for them for the average user. I think it's different with the RED Monstro, C700 FF and Venice. With those cameras, you will typically have crews with ACs pulling focus, much more carefully planned, blocked and composed scenes where you can utilize that wider FOV and shallower DOF at longer focal lengths. I don't think many adequately crewed feature films are being shot with mirrorless FF cameras. It's much more about weddings, run & gun events and documentary coverage and for those types of shoots, FF is sub-par to S35 IMHO.
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I am not trying to convince you or anyone else that FF is better than S35. Just pointing out what is the biggest advantage of FF nowadays. I could happily live with S35 if manufacturers will bring better lenses. I believe you own C200, so you know what I am talking. But I don't think this is going to happen. It is easier to sell FF than S35 or M43 for masses.

Good thing is AF is getting better and better. Yesterday, I shot at 85mm with A7III at 1.8 on gimbal with face detection and results are stelar. Next generation will be killer feature for guys like me (no crew, max one assistant).
 
KrocanX said:
I am not trying to convince you or anyone else that FF is better than S35. Just pointing out what is the biggest advantage of FF nowadays. I could happily live with S35 if manufacturers will bring better lenses.
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You are assuming that full frame lenses are better than other lenses.
I think that is not correct at all, there are wonderful smaller frame lenses and there aslo not so great full frame lenses.

Sure, full frame lenses can support higher resolutions, so yes if you absolutely need to make that 36 Megapixel movie go ahead and use a full frame lens but for 4K I think it is absolutely unnecessary.
 
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