Rumored 16-Inch 3072x1920 Resolution MacBook Pro to Launch in September

[Run&Gun]

This is true to a certain degree. That’s why Apple does provide a good three year warranty which will replace your entire MBP no questions asked if it fails that badly. After three years we are SOL.

True to a certain degree... IF you buy Apple Care+, you will get a three year warranty. Otherwise it's one year. And the sorta laughable 90 day "complimentary support". For the premium that Apple charges, the "complimentary support" should last as long as the base warranty.

That being said, I always get Apple Care+ on my phones and laptops.

 

[jb.]

Your comments remind me of the FUD ( fear uncertainty doubt ) that Nikon reps would use in the 80's and 90's to dissuade people from using independent camera repair shops instead of going to Nikon repair. Here in Toronto we had a few master repair technicians that often did a better job than Nikon did at almost everything. I even had some custom modifications done by these technicians that I could not get anywhere else.

I agree that small repair shops are not able to handle corporate repairs in any real quantity, but for independent freelancers you might save yourself quite a bit by going with an independent repair shop.

Yeah, I know what "FUD" stands for, thanks. My post is not that at all. It's realistic. Do we know how many repairs Rossmann does that aren't successful? I highly doubt he posts his failures on YouTube.

The whole point in responding to your Rossmann bromance posts was that the kind of repairs he does can not be profitably done at the scale that Apple does repairs nor with the level of skill they can expect to be able to hire at the Apple Store level across the country (or world). Microsoldering well at the size of the components on a MacBook Pro motherboard is a very very very tough skill to master and as I said it's pretty likely that someone attempting it (even with the requisite skill) would damage the board past repair anyway. There's a reason those boards are soldered by a machine to begin with. Apple would likely find it very difficult to hire a skilled technician like that in every metro area where they want to provide a Genius Bar to their customers. It's far far cheaper to just replace the logic board and send the old broken one back to a place to be broken down and recycled.

Add to that that people really like that they can walk into an Apple Store, drop their laptop off, and get it back a day or two later and you can see why doing micro-level repairs just isn't feasible. Would you really want to wait the amount of time it'd take for the Apple Geniuses to get around to your MacBook Pro if their average time to repair went from 1 hour to 5? I wouldn't.

I also get tired of hearing about how Apple's doing all of these things to make their machines harder to repair. While a lot of them do indeed make them harder to repair. I think a far more plausible (yet not nearly as intrigue-y) explanation is that their current obsession with how thin things are requires that they get rid of a lot of the stuff that makes machines easier to upgrade. An M2 SSD in a slot takes up a LOT more thickness than a few NAND chips soldered directly to the board. Same with DIMM slots. Gluing things together generally takes less space than screws. I personally don't like their emphasis on thin over everything else, but I certainly don't think Apple is doing this stuff on purpose as a way to screw independent repair shops. Everything is getting less repairable as it gets smaller and thinner and lighter.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

I also get tired of hearing about how Apple's doing all of these things to make their machines harder to repair. While a lot of them do indeed make them harder to repair. I think a far more plausible (yet not nearly as intrigue-y) explanation is that their current obsession with how thin things are requires that they get rid of a lot of the stuff that makes machines easier to upgrade. An M2 SSD in a slot takes up a LOT more thickness than a few NAND chips soldered directly to the board. Same with DIMM slots. Gluing things together generally takes less space than screws. I personally don't like their emphasis on thin over everything else, but I certainly don't think Apple is doing this stuff on purpose as a way to screw independent repair shops. Everything is getting less repairable as it gets smaller and thinner and lighter.

Or they'd rather you have to buy a new Mac when one component breaks rather than letting you actually replace it.

 

[TheDingo]

I also get tired of hearing about how Apple's doing all of these things to make their machines harder to repair. While a lot of them do indeed make them harder to repair. I think a far more plausible (yet not nearly as intrigue-y) explanation is that their current obsession with how thin things are requires that they get rid of a lot of the stuff that makes machines easier to upgrade.

But the PC laptops that are just as thin and manufactured in a similar way to the Apple laptops and are fully upgradable with standard components, with similar or better performance and they cost less, and the upgrade can be performed by anyone with the requisite tools and knowledge. It really isn't rocket science, though I think motherboard repair requires a much higher level of skills than most repair shops will have.

There was a time when Apple products could be upgraded by almost anybody, but with the inclusion of the T2 chip that can lock out 100 percent compatible parts because they did not come through Apple service, seems like a pretty sh*tty way to promote your products. The same applies to soldering memory chips to the motherboard to stop your customers from upgrading the products you sell them.

 

[Gary T]

I also get tired of hearing about how Apple's doing all of these things to make their machines harder to repair. While a lot of them do indeed make them harder to repair. I think a far more plausible (yet not nearly as intrigue-y) explanation is that their current obsession with how thin things are requires that they get rid of a lot of the stuff that makes machines easier to upgrade. An M2 SSD in a slot takes up a LOT more thickness than a few NAND chips soldered directly to the board. Same with DIMM slots. Gluing things together generally takes less space than screws. I personally don't like their emphasis on thin over everything else, but I certainly don't think Apple is doing this stuff on purpose as a way to screw independent repair shops. Everything is getting less repairable as it gets smaller and thinner and lighter.

Exactly!

Apple is responding to what they know the vast majority of their customers want. My guess is that for each customer who contacts Apple complaining that their SSDs are soldered there are a thousand who tell Apple they want their MacBook Pro to be smaller and lighter. More than one stranger has told me they think my 15inch MacBook Pro is too large and I know someone who has the same model told me she hasn't used her MacBook Pro since March because because of it's size. Her parents got it for her when she started graduate school and she didn't have to heart to tell them she hated it was too large. People are obsessed with size and weight.

The truth is most people would never upgrade their PCs even if they could. I knew a video editor who had an older 15inch MacBook Pro with 4GB of socketed RAM. I told him multiple times his system would go up to 16GB of RAM but he never upgraded the system. I was baffled but from what I've heard from friends who work in desktop support that isn't atypical. I'm somewhat guilty of this. One of my older iMacs has a socketed CPU that I could upgrade from an i5 to an i7 but I doubt I will ever go through the trouble to swap the chip out.

Like you I would love to see upgradable Memory and SSD slots. I still use my 2012 15" and I would love to see Apple return that thickness if it allowed that kind of user upgradability. Sadly I think those of us who feel this way are in the minority.

On a positive note maybe in a few years from we'll be editing 8K video on 2025 iPhone using our nifty new Apple sunglasses as a display.

 

[Gary T]

There was a time when Apple products could be upgraded by almost anybody, but with the inclusion of the T2 chip that can lock out 100 percent compatible parts because they did not come through Apple service, seems like a pretty sh*tty way to promote your products. The same applies to soldering memory chips to the motherboard to stop your customers from upgrading the products you sell them.

The T2 chip is about making Apple efforts to make their systems the most secure on the planet. The corporate customers who collectively purchase millions of MacBook Pro's want assurances that they won't lose intellectual property when an employees laptop is lost or stolen. The T2 chip also protects the MacBook Pro by not allowing someone to surreptitiously replace a MacBook Pro's TouchID module with a counterfeit unit.

Some who peruse this forum likely live in dangerous places where they might be killed for a text message. Apple's iMessage encrypts the message in a way that even Apple can't read it and keeps someone from installing a fake touchID sensor on their MacBook Pro in order to occasionally log on to retrieve messages. The world is a dangerous place and Apple is being being paranoid for their users.

There are some handy perks for the T2 chip. The T2 chip's HEVC acceleration allows the lowly i3 Mac Mini to encode HEVC video almost twice as fast as they entry level 2019 27inch iMac.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...t-difference-in-video-encoding-for-most-users

 

[jb.]

But the PC laptops that are just as thin and manufactured in a similar way to the Apple laptops and are fully upgradable with standard components, with similar or better performance and they cost less, and the upgrade can be performed by anyone with the requisite tools and knowledge.

I agree. There are more user serviceable model laptops on the market. If the market truly cared a lot about field upgradable machines, Apple would be hurting. Turns out, very few people care. My laptops are on a 2 year replacement cycle. I sell them when I’m done with them for a stellar price because they still have a year of AppleCare on them. Newer machines get AppleCare+ which covers drops and spills and the like too.

The hardest thing to understand for a lot of people is that we’re not typical users and Apple will make far more money in aggregate from people who could give two craps about swapping SSDs... if they even know what M.2 is... than they ever will from people who care about that stuff.

I want a headless machine between a Mac mini and a Mac Pro. Something with some expandability, a high end desktop CPU and GPU, etc... but if there were a lot of people like me Apple would likely make one. I’d guess there just isn’t a huge market for that machine. So, I either jump ship to Windows or I pick “best available” from Apple’s lineup. It’s futile to complain about it.

 

[alohype]

I see a few people try to defend Apple's way of doing things. I tried that mind gymnastics for a while to justify everything that Apple does finally coming to the conclusion that no, they're not customer friendly first. They want you to believe so but in reality, they're not.

MBP's internal design is FLAWED end of the story. There are design standards that almost every other manufacturer follows which Apple doesn't. Just a bit of humidity shouldn't destroy your laptop, data bus shouldn't be just next to the power bus, just opening and closing your screen shouldn't in the end result of forcing you to change LCD panel.

All the other things (warranty, walk in genius bar, quality of components used etc.) is irrelevant, this is just a bad design that should never happen.

... responding to your Rossmann bromance posts was that the...

??

 

[puredrifting]

I agree. There are more user serviceable model laptops on the market. If the market truly cared a lot about field upgradable machines, Apple would be hurting. Turns out, very few people care. My laptops are on a 2 year replacement cycle. I sell them when I’m done with them for a stellar price because they still have a year of AppleCare on them. Newer machines get AppleCare+ which covers drops and spills and the like too.

I'm this way. I always buy one or two steps down from top of the line, install and max out my RAM and call it a day. I have zero interest in swapping out processors, etc. I did swap out the optical drive in my old MBP for an SSD but I don't do very complex swap outs. I've held off on buying new MBP because my 2011 is still chugging along and all I use it for is media downloding on select shoots. Editing on a laptop is torture for me so I am saving $5-$6k by not buying a new MBP. I'm cheap too!

 

[alohype]

Another issue found in Macbook's (Air this time).
Louis response (and explanation for anyone thinking that he makes money for NOT recommending newer MBP's)

 

[Gary T]

Another issue found in Macbook's (Air this time).
Louis response (and explanation for anyone thinking that he makes money for NOT recommending newer MBP's)

Sorry but this is clickbait garbage. The most honest statement in the video is his acknowledgement near the beginning where states he isn’t a professional product reviewer.

I’ll see if I can paraphrase the video for those who don’t want to waste almost 8 minutes watching it.

Apple just released an advisory on the newest MacBook Air. Apple is willing to fix the issue for free. Rossman, isn’t sure what the issue is or how severe it is but the fact that it exists is evidence in his mind that you shouldn’t buy new Apple products.
____________________

Do you think we aren’t smart enough to realize that a small percentage of Apple laptops have issues? Do you think other manufacturers don’t have hardware issues? Someone with a seven year old PC laptop is likely to just throw it into the trash instead of sending it to NYC to get it repaired. Rossman is still making money repairing 2010 MacBook Pros.

Dude, I think everyone in this thread acknowledges that Apple current line of portable has issues. In fact part of the excitement for unverified 16” MacBook Pro it would appear to be a new design with a hopefully fixed keyboard. I personally want more RAM and additional ports along a few other enhancements while others have their own wishlists.

The fact that many of us want a new design doesn’t change the fact that there are tens of millions of very happy Apple laptops owners out that Rossman and others like him will never hear from. Many of these people think the 15.4” MacBook Pro and even the 13” models are too large and Apple is frantically working to give them what they want.

 

[alohype]

Do you think we aren’t smart enough to realize that a small percentage of Apple laptops have issues?

"Small" because Apple said so? Sorry, no, it's not a small percentage. All of their laptops have major design flaws.

Do you think other manufacturers don’t have hardware issues?

Of course, they do, but they do not have hardware design that goes against technical design practices.

Dude, I think everyone in this thread acknowledges that Apple current line of portable has issues.

Well, it's seems no, not everyone, some people still believes in some fairytales that Apple tells them.
As many people as possible should be informed of what they are buying into, what can break and why.

In fact part of the excitement for unverified 16” MacBook Pro it would appear to be a new design with a hopefully fixed keyboard. I personally want more RAM and additional ports along with a few other enhancements while others have their own wishlists.

I'm on it, I hope Apple will finally release a machine without flaws so I can upgrade my 2014 model.
Don't get me wrong, I love macOS I have no issues with paying a premium price but for a machine without flaws. If many people will pressure them they will finally do it.

The fact that many of us want a new design doesn’t change the fact that there are tens of millions of very happy Apple laptops owners out that Rossman and others like him will never hear from. Many of these people think the 15.4” MacBook Pro and even the 13” models are too large and Apple is frantically working to give them what they want.

Don't even get me started...
Those users that you're referring to are browser and Word users. Many power users will state otherwise.

Well, the nearest example is me. My 2014 MBP with GeForce GT 750M is a total GPU failure with non-working CUDA that crashes your system every 5 minutes. (that's why next model, 2015 release was with AMD GPU instead of GeForce. 2015 is currently probably the best bet)


In summary, I hope Apple will change their tactics and start to release maybe slightly thicker machine but solidly made without design flaws.
The only way to force them to do it is to keep spreading information, banging at their doors and threatening to not buy half baked laptops from them.
If everyone will behave like a sheep buying whatever they release denying reality they will keep doing what they're doing.

 

[jb.]

"Small" because Apple said so? Sorry, no, it's not a small percentage. All of their laptops have major design flaws.

Meh. I’ve owned every iteration of the new gen MacBook Pro. Not a single one of them has had keyboard issues. In fact, I quite like the butterfly keyboard feel. Maybe I’m just super lucky and need to buy some lotto tickets...

Those users that you're referring to are browser and Word users. Many power users will state otherwise.

I love my 2019 MacBook Pro and I’m pretty sure I’d be considered a “power user.” Probably more so than most here. Don’t be condescending.

Well, the nearest example is me. My 2014 MBP with GeForce GT 750M is a total GPU failure with non-working CUDA that crashes your system every 5 minutes. (that's why next model, 2015 release was with AMD GPU instead of GeForce. 2015 is currently probably the best bet)

Yeah. Nvidia sold Apple a bunch of bum graphics cards... and Apple in response extended the warranty on those affected machines and dropped the vendor. Boy, what a pile of assholes they are amirite?

Are Apple’s machines perfect? No. They’ve made and will make mistakes. Just like every computer (and consumer electronics) maker in the world. Their designs also tend to be opinionated. That means they’ll sometimes not be for you personally... that doesn’t mean they’re bad. Just that they’re not for you.

I’m far from an Apple apologist. The $999 monitor stand is stupid and the Mac Pro base model is a terrible value. But they’re nowhere near the evil jerks some in this thread would make them out to be.

The bottom line is, if you value things Apple doesn’t provide, you should look elsewhere.

In summary, I hope Apple will change their tactics and start to release maybe slightly thicker machine but solidly made without design flaws.
The only way to force them to do it is to keep spreading information, banging at their doors and threatening to not buy half baked laptops from them.
If everyone will behave like a sheep buying whatever they release denying reality they will keep doing what they're doing.

Do you even understand how condescending and insulting it is to call people who’re satisfied or even happy with Apple products “sheep”? It totally undermines any actual messaging you’re trying to convey and makes you look like a jerk.

Stop “threatening.” Just don’t buy their product. Switch to Windows or Linux or whatever. That is the best move for everyone involved. Apple is Apple... for better or worse. They’re unlikely to change their stripes at this point.

Also, every design has flaws. Some are more glaring than others and some only affect certain use cases. To think you can create a design without flaws shows a lack of understanding of industrial design, especially at the level Apple (and Dell and Microsoft and any other large consumer electronics maker) operates at. Compromises have to be made. Mistakes will be made. Especially when you’re pushing the envelope.