Rumor: Canon 4k super35 camera

hunter richards said:
I saw them in Chicago too- snagged this pic... Obviously covered in some sort of housing.. Reminds me of the big white L lenses- Seems to be a 4k s35mm camera from here? #occupycanonchicago

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So 1984.

I think the rumoured 1D Mark V announcement next week could be really interesting if true. 16-18 Megapixels and dual Digic 5 could mean a fix for aliasing/moire and pretty amazing low light ability. It won't be cheap but unlike these rumoured video cameras it will be full frame, small and hopefully will have uncompressed thunderbolt out. If I had to choose between a full frame DSLR and an S35 video body that both had comparable image I'd take the DSLR.
 
squig said:
hopefully will have uncompressed thunderbolt out.
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This, I think, would be very interesting. If you could get an uncompressed RAW or RGB out of the camera at 5.5K (17MP 16:9), things could get very interesting. Of course, I'd prefer not to think about recording those data rates.
 
Ben Totman said:
if the only camera they announce is the hairdryer and it has a 4k 2/3" sensor with a fixed lens, theyre going to disappoint everyone but a select few, that doesnt mean the camera will be useless...
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Again, not to discredit Barry, but why would they be releasing a 4k camera with an ENG sensor at a Hollywood event? It's Canon, so who knows...I could be wrong. But that makes very little sense to me.
 
SPZ said:
Pics or it didn't happen :)
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You can't get real hairdryer pics in rumor thread :D But rumor about shooting around L.A. was already mentioned on Philip Bloom web: "Crews have been around Los Angeles and in the Mojave desert area shooting demo material for the launch presentation."
 
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Well, according to Red, Canon will be announcing their best cam yet, so... I'm hopeful, or maybe not ;)

Ps: and hopefully it'll stay below 10k
 
Maybe Canon and Red made a joint venture and there will be only one big Nov 3rd presentation :D :D
 
Centro said:
Well, according to Red, Canon will be announcing their best cam yet, so... I'm hopeful, or maybe not ;)
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But then Jannard comes back and says he doesn't know what Canon will announce. There's a lot of hype going on over there and he's intentionally settting up expectations to make it look like: 1) RED is the "underdog" 2) Canon will show their best agains RED's "best".

But even he knows Canon doesn't work that way. Canon is a conservative company and they're not going to introduce a first generation production as their "best" product. Jannard is setting up Canon to lose in this imaginary battle he's created. Canon will come out with something mainstream like a S35 sensor, 1080P, 4:2:2 or something like that. That's why he keeps saying he doesn't believe in 1080P and he keeps mentioning specs. He wants to beat Canon on specs and he knows he will because Canon doesn't design for high end specs on the first go around.

So what can RED possibly announce? Their best is already Epic and all they have left is Scarlet. I bet they'll announce something again that teases new technology but is not mature enough to ship anytime soon so that they can claim the "spec" war.
 
Seems you are reading in to what he said a little far, he said he respected them, he owns a lot of their gear, and doesn't doubt they will put out something nice. But he is in competition with them in one way or the other so it makes sense. Free marketing, getting word out, no press is bad press...er. I find far to many assume what he means rather than giving him the benefit of the doubt. (if anyone hasn't read http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?64628-Why-to-not-like-RED... explains red mentality very well)

I'd like to see other CEO's face the public as often as he does, let alone be so involved with the whole process and drive of the company, so it's personal for Jim. Positive thinking is a very powerful thing...

Either way two different products(perhaps more) both will do very well in their own regard, nothing wrong with that. Assuming any more than that, and jumping to conclusions or judgements based on assumptions doesn't make sense to me.

Let companies go to war or battle, I'd love it, we are the one's who benefit so why complain?

here's to hoping we all get something we can afford and fits our needs so we can stop arguing and be more productive and supportive, to each their own and let them be glorious... Have a good one everybody!

p.s. after re-reading all Jim's posts in that thread (red team button) I have no idea where you got him trying to set up canon to fail, in fact he says plenty of good things about them(he is a canon customer too)... and in terms of company size Red is the underdog... or little dog compared to them, just going in assuming negative attitudes and projecting them onto what he is saying which was not that... or at least that's how I see it.
 
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S. Matthews said:
p.s. after re-reading all Jim's posts in that thread (red team button) I have no idea where you got him trying to set up canon to fail, in fact he says plenty of good things about them(he is a canon customer too)... and in terms of company size Red is the underdog... or little dog compared to them, just going in assuming negative attitudes and projecting them onto what he is saying which was not that... or at least that's how I see it.
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Jannard is the king of hype. He knows what he's doing. He's like a politician who knows how to play both sides to his advantage. In that same thread he says he doesn't underestimate Canon then in the next few posts he rolls his eyes at them.

RED wants a spec war. RED wants to be the "best." Red considers "winning" by having the best specs. RED already knows they will have the best specs because Canon will not go all out with this first release. Canon will release a conservative camera at first because that's what they've always done and that's how their engineering works. If they release a flagship camera, it won't be until later.

So why announce on the same date as Canon (and basically rain on their parade) and tout it as some big battle if you already know you will win? To set up to Canon to look inferior and to "lose." It marketing. It's a tactic they want to use. I leave it up to others to decide if that's cool or not--I'm just pointing it out.
 
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Well, assuming Jim is speaking the truth, there are a couple of interesting points here.

1. Assuming, as he says, Jim really doesn't know what Canon will be rolling out, he must really think it's something to compete with Scarlet. I mean, it would be kind of interesting if he missed the mark here. RED puts up Scarlet and Canon puts up...a new set of PL primes and zooms - or a new "Hollywood" training program in their facility for DSLR shooters - or so many other things that may not even be close.

2. In many ways, RED is quite an underdog in the fight, even though their cameras have become relatively wildly popular. They are still a very new company - they've been selling cameras for less than a decade. They are a very small company - they apparently doubled their workforce recently to a total of about 400 people. That's 400 people for everything they do - from research and development to manufacturing of every EPIC in CA to end-user support by the BOMB SQUAD. For all of the stuff they already make - RED ONE, EPIC-M, EPIC-X, RED PRO lenses, REDCINE-X Pro, etc. To all of the things they have announced that are still in development - Scarlet, Projectors, REDRAY, more lenses, etc. And they still face a great deal of criticism, skepticism, and prejudice. Some of the FUD people believe to be true about their cameras are really surprising.

3. RED likes Canon for their lenses. RED's own lenses fill a niche quite different than that of the Canons. This, of course, could change if Canon decides to become a major "Hollywood" lens manufacturer.

4. RED doesn't care about Canon's cameras - yet. The people who are going to choose to shoot on DSLR cameras or 1/3" video cameras are quite different than the folks that choose to shoot on EPIC. (Yes, there is some cross-over, yes, DSLRs are used in major motion picture production. I'm not saying their not. I'm just saying that major motion picture DPs and Producers aren't deciding to choose DSLRs over film or digital cinema cameras.) Now, it canon does put out a 4K super35 camera, I think that'll change.

5. I think Jim likes a challenge. I think he likes the toe the line. I think he likes to be able to just let his product speak for itself about what it does compared to the rest of the field. And I'm sure he's excited for Nov 3rd, when he'll get to draw back the curtain on a project that has been years in development and of which he is obviously very proud.

6. Assuming that Canon follows the "conservative camera first" doctrine, I think they've made a mistake. They haven't exactly set the expectations low with their promotion. All we know is to expect a "global" "historic" announcement in Hollywood, CA. If it's something dribbly, only to be followed by the camera everyone really wants 6-months or a year later, I think that would be a bit of a problem. Personally, I think if Canon is going the cinema camera route on Nov 3rd, their rather antiquated line of video cameras will probably get a very significant update.

And RED followed Canon's announcement with their own.
 
Canon did. Either way this is a business. Take it as you will, but honestly the rolls eye's was very vague and the only comment remotely close to insulting to Canon and very hard to interpret. It's a written word no body language no tone, so for me it's hard to jump to conclusions from something like that. When it could very well have been a reaction to a misread post of a user, and he decided to make it aimed at canon vs one of his customers.... but what do i know.

Thing is he seems fairly honest, and I tend to believe him, whether it's hype or not to them I believe it's real. I also find him more honest and genuine than most of reds detractors... but that is just me.

Once again who cares if they do battle, customers have already built up both companies potential offerings so much that they will be disappointed no matter what, not much red or canon has to do in that department.

In the end we all win in one way or the other so who cares what camera you buy, or what marketing strategy they or the other guys used, it's all just distractions from what really matters getting a device that can allow us to accomplish our goals and projects with the greatest of ease possible, or the highest quality possible, or somewhere in-between. There are many needs in this field and those surrounding it so I welcome the new array of cameras with varying feature sets it just makes for a much better working environment for all of us as long as we stop fighting marketing battles for the companies and begin helping each other to find out what best suits our needs rather than what we feel they need.
 
Jannard has contacts in component manufacturing, DP's, directors- you name it. I'll bet he has a very good idea of what Canon has in the works.
 
_JD_ said:
Jannard has contacts in component manufacturing, DP's, directors- you name it. I'll bet he has a very good idea of what Canon has in the works.
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for sure.... and as long as Canon don't tick one of the following boxes .... resolution, raw, modular... then RED will scoff and claim victory (I absolutely HATE this war/fight analogy they have started).

As I have said before here, I'm all for Scarlet, if it suits me, i'll buy it... but I wont be in any hurry to press the "buy now" button.... I want to see clear proof that they have sorted their firmware and, most importantly, their manufacturing out before I join up.
 
Jim absolutely knows what is coming from Canon - it's his business to know that kind of information, and as you said has all the contacts/partners to keep him informed.
 
Hey I'll take camera wars over any real war, physical fighting is a horrible thing (though what can appear to be the only solution sometimes) company warfare is a reality whether you label it as such or not it has been going on long before red or even Oakley ever existed and will continue as long as there is more than one company in a field.
 
S. Matthews said:
Hey I'll take camera wars over any real war, physical fighting is a horrible thing (though what can appear to be the only solution sometimes) company warfare is a reality whether you label it as such or not it has been going on long before red or even Oakley ever existed and will continue as long as there is more than one company in a field.
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The strange thing is... I wonder if Canon even cares?....

how many lens will they shift on Epic/Scarlet users, if RED win this supposed war? If Scarlet turns out to be an s35 model.... Canon lens sales will do just fine out of the deal. It's a funny old world.
 
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