RT 5D 24p solution for MacBook with Premiere CS4

M

madyogi

Member
So, I will be getting a Canon 5D MkII soon, and my plan was to use cineform neoscene for the 24p conversion. However, I will be editing in Premiere Pro CS4 on a MacBook Pro, and it turns out there is no RT editing with the cineform codec on Mac at this time.

Anyone have alternative suggestions for ways to accomplish the 24p conversion, while still maintaining RT editing in PPro CS4 on a Mac? The other note about NeoScene is that I love how it performs the pulldown conversion and keeps the audio right with the file. No need to re-sync.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that NeoScene can do a 30p-to-24p conversion. When it "removes pulldown," it's working with 24p embedded in 60i. 30p is an entirely different animal. In order to do a proper 30p-to-24p conversion, very sophisticated software is required to analyze each frame and then generate new, intermediate frames based on information from existing frames. Apple's Compressor and Shake are able to do this through "Optical Flow" technology, Twixtor does it, and After Effects has a similar retiming engine. Every one of those methods (which has been discussed in great detail over at cinema5D.com) has some artifacts, occasionally, and they all take a long time to render: A few minutes of footage takes several hours to process.
 
I am not uber-technical when it comes to frame-rate conversions, and I don't have my 5d yet, but my trial copy of NeoScene does a fine job of converting 29.97p AVCHD files into 23.97p Cineform-Intermediate files. I can plop them right into a Premiere Pro 24p timeline, audio comes along fine and everything.

I suppose I assumed the same would work with 5d footage, though that may have been a hasty assumption. Again, I don't know if this process constitutes proper 30p-to-24p conversion or not, but on a budget it gets the job done - and it's pretty fast processing to boot.

I'll check over at cinema5d for more.
 
madyogi said:
I am not uber-technical when it comes to frame-rate conversions, and I don't have my 5d yet, but my trial copy of NeoScene does a fine job of converting 29.97p AVCHD files into 23.97p Cineform-Intermediate files. I can plop them right into a Premiere Pro 24p timeline, audio comes along fine and everything.
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Are you sure that you weren't simply mistaken when tested it? That "29.97p" footage might have actually been 60i...

Bottom line: If the conversion is fast, then it's not real.
 
Unfortunately I am still ordering equipment, and I didn't shoot the footage myself. According to the source, however, it was shot 30p. All my software sees it as 30p.

I get it that none of these cheaper/less time consuming methods is going to be as good as some of the other algorithms. In the end, you might say I am looking around for what might be the best of a bunch of bad alternatives.

I don't have unlimited time/money, but I do have a decent amount of both at this point. My clients are not in possession of the most trained eyes either.

I'm just wondering if there's a reasonably-priced method for getting something that approximates 24p (doesn't have to be "perfect") out of the 5dmkii that 1) allows for real time editing in premiere cs4 (on a mac) and 2) does not require extensive re-syncing of audio.

I've been searching through the forum here and at cinema5d for a few hours now, and I'm beginning to believe the answer is "no."
 
yes it was designed for 24p retrieval out of 60i, in which is does a perfect job. From 29.97 progressive however it doesn't really work very well, as it was not designed for that.
The only decent ways to do the conversion are with... Shake, AE and Compressor. They as well have their limits but can look pretty good in most situations.
 
Not to sound like a total newb here, but how would you suggest conversion in AE? Are there acceptable methods using the program as it ships (like interpret footage), or would that require purchasing something like twixtor?

Thanks.
 
You know, you could do what's been advised here and at cinema5D.com over and over: Just edit in 30p, then convert to 24p as the last step.

If you want RT editing, you'll have to transcode to an intermediate codec anyway. Working natively with H.264 can be a real pain.
 
I suppose I'm partial to the full-frame sensor. I have buddies who are DSLR stills guys and they swear by the difference. I am still in the process of getting bids for equipment, as I'm starting a small multimedia department at a medical school. I suppose buying the 7D would save me some money I could use on another lens.

I see you're getting a 7D ... You're not concerned about the crop factor? Either way, I'm totally new to shooting video with a stills camera, and it will be my secondary video source. I'm only into it because it sounds like great fun, and I have bit of extra money to spend after buying the video cam.

Do you have a favorite intermediate codec other than ProRes?
 
For some reason, I chafe at ProRes, even though it's not rational. I don't even know what I have against it, but I just don't like it.

You can get the Avid intermediate codecs for free: http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=263545

I recommend them all the time. But if hard drive space and money are not too much of an issue, then I recommend SheerVideo. It's lossless with a 2:1 compression ratio, but it's the best.
 
madyogi said:
I see you're getting a 7D ... You're not concerned about the crop factor?
Click to expand...
Why should I be concerned? If I can get the lenses that I need, then I'm not going to worry about it.

Plus the native 24p, better rolling shutter, multiple frame rates, and lower price point are compelling enough reasons for me to make the switch.
 
So, please forgive my ignorance, but what exactly does the phrase "rolling shutter" refer to, and what does it look like in video?
 
Thanks for that. I am starting to feel like I should definitely be looking more carefully at the 7d ... Even though that has nothing to do with my reasons for starting this thread ... ha!
 
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