Route to Directing

jpastuch said:
This is correct...except I don't know what you mean by "burning bridges". You actually shouldn't do that- you should find people you love to work with and vice versa, and throw yourself into it with them.
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"buring bridges" probably refers to the practice of borrowing money from everyone you know, the getting to know new people, because you have no money to pay back the folks on the other side of the bridge, who are coming at you with pitchforks, or handy blunt instruments of death and torture...
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
On that happy note I offer this (I don't think I've seen this clip mentioned on this site... but who knows...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUyKpfbB9M8


For those who don't want to sully themselves in youtube... and I'm still wondering if this is some sort of spoof... but if it is 'real', the salient points for this discussion are; the young woman is a hairdresser whose friends, to her report, all think she has 'talent'... well, for those who don't want to kick their ears out of calibration... Only Joe Cocker could get away with singing that badly... after her performance, and scathing review... she seems to be totally astonished that the panel did not 'see' her talent... (I think the woman who purportely plays the kazoo with... well... her 'female' equipment, would be more 'talented', or at least entertaining... but I digress...)

One does have to wonder what kind of friends this person has, who think, if she is correct, she's 'good'...
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This story does not surprise me in the slightest - no need to inflict the video on myself. Been there, heard that too many painful times to remember. Sometimes, memory *is* a good thing to lose... : )

Meanwhile, not to start an argument here, but I think Joe Cocker is a fantastic singer, and no, I'm not joking. Beautufiul tone? No. Great in almost every other way (at least when he's at his best)? You betcha.

For each of us individually though, it's all a matter of personal taste...
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
"buring bridges" probably refers to the practice of borrowing money from everyone you know, the getting to know new people, because you have no money to pay back the folks on the other side of the bridge, who are coming at you with pitchforks, or handy blunt instruments of death and torture...
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There's a movie in there somewhere...
 
I am lucky enough to have a full time producer as a professor at my college. In what is predominantly a film and media studies program (read: not film prudction) his knowledge and experience is invaluable. I think the most important thing he told me is that making it in the film industry is simple. He made sure I understood his choice of wording. Simple - not easy. He said that becoming a writer/director in Hollywood is simple - all you do is write a good screenplay. And therein really lies the problem. Everyone knows its hard to write a good screenplay.

He told me that film, even though in Hollywood its regarded more as a business than an art, is still an art form at its core and therefore it requires of the artist a certain level of honest. Writers first have to known themselves through and through, before they can begin to know their characters and their stories. That's why everyone says the biggest part of being a writer is being true to yourself. Then, once you do that, you find your good idea or good story and you write it over and over again until you are sure that no one else in the entire world could write it better than you already have.

Then go at it. Find people, tell them about your story. Whore it out to everyone. They'll still say no, but ask them for a reason. Then incorporate their thoughts into your screenplay, and keep at it until there is nothing more that producers can say no to.
 
I'm no expert, nor a professional, by ANY means. I'm still a student and I'm still learning what's what.

But first thing's first: you need to stop asking for advice on a message board. No harm done! We all wonder how we'll get into the movie industry. The answer doesn't lie with somebody else, though. As people have stated already, the industry is erratic. It feels like someone discovers a new way to get in every day. There's no set formula. A good script and a solid pitch might work one day, but it'll fall flat the next. Success stories are so varied when it comes to making it into Hollywood, there's barely ever any consistency.

Except for one thing - they worked at their craft. Just start working the kinks out, get some hands on experience, talk to people, get a feeling for how people talk on set, learn the vocab, learn what it feels like to set up a certain shot, what that gives you as a result, etc. All these things can't be learned from reading a book or having someone tell you flat out - it happens, and it happens by doing, by making it happen.

But heck, I might be wrong. The best part, however, about making movies is this: it's the EASIEST thing to do. You can pick up a camera right now, walk outside, and shoot something with intentions to edit it later. You made a movie! Yes, it's not a *Hollywood* movie, but if you love making movies, you'll feel fulfilled. Keep at it and keep improving and eventually, you'll go somewhere.
 
Movie_Dude_3 said:
I'm no expert, nor a professional, by ANY means. I'm still a student and I'm still learning what's what.

But first thing's first: you need to stop asking for advice on a message board. No harm done! We all wonder how we'll get into the movie industry. The answer doesn't lie with somebody else, though. As people have stated already, the industry is erratic. It feels like someone discovers a new way to get in every day. There's no set formula. A good script and a solid pitch might work one day, but it'll fall flat the next. Success stories are so varied when it comes to making it into Hollywood, there's barely ever any consistency.

Except for one thing - they worked at their craft. Just start working the kinks out, get some hands on experience, talk to people, get a feeling for how people talk on set, learn the vocab, learn what it feels like to set up a certain shot, what that gives you as a result, etc. All these things can't be learned from reading a book or having someone tell you flat out - it happens, and it happens by doing, by making it happen.

But heck, I might be wrong. The best part, however, about making movies is this: it's the EASIEST thing to do. You can pick up a camera right now, walk outside, and shoot something with intentions to edit it later. You made a movie! Yes, it's not a *Hollywood* movie, but if you love making movies, you'll feel fulfilled. Keep at it and keep improving and eventually, you'll go somewhere.
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With relatively few exceptions, real success in the arts will not happen without large quantities of talent, training and experience. Luck will help, but it's not a requirement. The first three are.
 
Luck will help, but it's not a requirement.
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I'm sorry; experience teaches me that this is just flat-out wrong. Luck is essential. Witness the very, very large number of people who are as talented, as driven, and as hard-working at developing their craft as the next person, who are waiting tables/dog-sitting/landscaping simply because they have not yet made the connection that enables them to shine in their chosen discipline. And, frankly, witness the large number of people who ought to be waiting on tables or pushing wheelbarrows, who instead are working good industry jobs because they have had the good fortune to meet the right opportunity to help them get there.

I'm not discounting talent - which is very useful - training - which is in some form essential - or experience - which can be vital - but alas luck cannot be so casually discounted (although of course there is a great deal you can do, to make your own).
 
Sad Max said:
I'm sorry; experience teaches me that this is just flat-out wrong. Luck is essential. Witness the very, very large number of people who are as talented, as driven, and as hard-working at developing their craft as the next person, who are waiting tables/dog-sitting/landscaping simply because they have not yet made the connection that enables them to shine in their chosen discipline. And, frankly, witness the large number of people who ought to be waiting on tables or pushing wheelbarrows, who instead are working good industry jobs because they have had the good fortune to meet the right opportunity to help them get there.

I'm not discounting talent - which is very useful - training - which is in some form essential - or experience - which can be vital - but alas luck cannot be so casually discounted (although of course there is a great deal you can do, to make your own).
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Well, I guess we're just gonna have to differ on that. As I said, in my three decades in music and film, I've seen quite a few people succeed and far, far more fail, and from where I sit, the role of luck in these matters is very overrated, although much less so than genuine talent and skill are underrated (or just not judged honestly). But that's all I have to offer I suppose - my own, hopefully well informed, opinion...
 
One other point I'd like to add is that I think focusing on the luck aspect can be very disempowering. It becomes far too easy to cop out on the real hard work of becoming excellent at, let's say, making films, and then blame your lack of success on a shortage of "luck". Believe me, I've seen this exact psychology play out a thousand times in the minds of mediocre recording artists. But I can all but guaran-frickin-tee ya that that ain't the way Spielberg, Tarantino, Streep, Hoffman, Pacino and DeNiro approached it...
 
Ted Spencer said:
Well, I guess we're just gonna have to differ on that. As I said, in my three decades in music and film, I've seen quite a few people succeed and far, far more fail, and from where I sit, the role of luck in these matters is very overrated, although much less so than genuine talent and skill are underrated (or just not judged honestly). But that's all I have to offer I suppose - my own, hopefully well informed, opinion...
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It's true that we're all constrained by individual experience. I can only point to the last 20 years in the Los Angeles film/tv production industry. Your mileage may vary.

Ted Spencer said:
One other point I'd like to add is that I think focusing on the luck aspect can be very disempowering. It becomes far too easy to cop out on the real hard work of becoming excellent at, let's say, making films, and then blame your lack of success on a shortage of "luck". Believe me, I've seen this exact psychology play out a thousand times in the minds of mediocre recording artists. But I can all but guaran-frickin-tee ya that that ain't the way Spielberg, Tarantino, Streep, Hoffman, Pacino and DeNiro approached it...
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I think that focusing on luck - certainly to the exclusion of the work - is a colossal mistake (not to mention it's something I never suggested - observing that luck is a factor <> saying that luck is the only, or dominant factor). The old saw applies - luck exists at the intersection of preparation and opportunity. If you are not on top of your game, you are far less likely to be able to exploit a lucky opening when it presents itself.

Anyway, losers are never at a loss to find excuses for losing out. No quantity of advice is going to benefit someone who thinks like that, anyhow.
 
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Ted Spencer said:
Meanwhile, not to start an argument here, but I think Joe Cocker is a fantastic singer, and no, I'm not joking. Beautufiul tone? No. Great in almost every other way (at least when he's at his best)? You betcha.

For each of us individually though, it's all a matter of personal taste...
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Well, obviously there's been a number of people who have liked him over the years, since he's still around...

But on the issue of 'luck'... In certain areas, it seems that there is sort of a desire to maintain that sort of 'myth'... the waitress 'found' by a producer/director, heck, occasionally I hear the story that Harrison Ford was pounding nails when he got 'his call to greatness'..., In the music industry, there's almost a required 'story' for everyone, the band was playing in bar on 'that side' of town... etc.

The when someone does come along, like... 'gosh I didn't know Val Kilmer went to Julliard'... or the like, it sounds almost like 'fake'... and Daniel Day Lewis studied stage acting in England before his 'break' in Film...

(*Then again, perhaps most people are unaware of how picky Julliard is... so don't see the significance...)
 
A few years' work in the LA industry will most likely disabuse one of the idea that luck's utility is a 'myth.'

*edit* actually I'd hazard a guess that the usefulness of luck in virtually *any* discipline is not mythical...
 
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Sad Max said:
A few years' work in the LA industry will most likely disabuse one of the idea that luck's utility is a 'myth.'

*edit* actually I'd hazard a guess that the usefulness of luck in virtually *any* discipline is not mythical...
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If you mean luck as, 'being in the right place, at the right time, with the right skills',
sure... but there's the rub... right skills set... and if the 'lucky' person doesn't have the skills to move on from that lucky turn... the industry spits them out pretty damn quick...

But really, one can not 'use' luck, one can only take advantage of an opportunity when it occurs... otherwise, one is left with... 'ah cuda been ah contendah'...

The theory behind 'schmoozing' is to up the probability of 'luck' occuring...
 
The problem in this thread is people keep discussing "success", especially in an "industry". This is a very American (and maybe English, I don't know) way of thinking that probably started in Hollywood and now extends all around the world.

I'm a student, and no industry insider, so I don't claim to know more than anybody who has worked in it for 30 years. But I'm sure you pros know that "fame" and "hitting it big" doesn't mean anything except as far as exposure and money goes. And that contests like American Idol are just traps to get viewers- that show isn't about talent, though people with talent may appear on it. It's about fame, and hitting it big. Those things don't have to coincide with being a good singer or musician.

As far as being a director in the same way a painter is a painter or a musician is a muscian, you can't base it on if you get into multiplexes, or sundance, or SXSW even. Or EVEN if your movie is "good". It's about pushing yourself and believing in yourself and doing things no one else has done in the art form- being true to yourself, being unique.

The problem is filmmaking is expensive, more expensive than painting or music. That doesn't mean you have to play the game, so to speak, to become a director or artist working in these means. Look how ridiculously cheap cameras have become. And audio equipment. And editing. Soon, cameras (and I mean the good ones, not just cellphone cams) will become like pens and pencils and keyboards- everyone will have access to them, few will know how to REALLY use them to say something. Just look at youtube.

I think like any artist you have to have a feel for it, if you're cut out. To me, a filmmaker is the epitomy of starving artists. You have to go for broke. Unlike other starving artists, not only will you not make money, you will lose money and take a big gamble on getting into serious debt. This does not sound fun to a lot of people, but it's the truth. I don't plan on hitting it big or being rich, but I know the only thing I know how to do is make films and I've felt this way for 6 years now. Even if I have to work a day job the rest of my life to support my films, that's what I'll do. Even if this makes me an "amature".

Otherwise, I might as well quit now because the odds are against me. No one can "beat" me except myself.
 
My advice -

If you want to direct - start directing. No other way to it. You can't hope to be a director and then land it. Just wanting it doesn't get it for you.

Even if you discount "being in the right place at the right time" (AKA - luck) - you still need to be decent at what you do and have a general vision. I know people who really really want to direct. They have the will. They can't direct their way out of a paper bag...

Start directing shorts. Direct a feature. Direct a play. Direct traffic. Just start directing - one day, maybe someone will see you have talent and things will fall into line.
 
Sad Max said:
It's true that we're all constrained by individual experience. I can only point to the last 20 years in the Los Angeles film/tv production industry. Your mileage may vary.



I think that focusing on luck - certainly to the exclusion of the work - is a colossal mistake (not to mention it's something I never suggested - observing that luck is a factor <> saying that luck is the only, or dominant factor). The old saw applies - luck exists at the intersection of preparation and opportunity. If you are not on top of your game, you are far less likely to be able to exploit a lucky opening when it presents itself.

Anyway, losers are never at a loss to find excuses for losing out. No quantity of advice is going to benefit someone who thinks like that, anyhow.
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I agree with you. Luck is very important. It's not to say that it much matters to be "lucky" if you have no skills whatsoever. A lot of hacks like to say "Well McG sucks, he has no talent," or similar such things, but that's not what I'm talking about, lol, I mean he obviously knows how to make a major budget feature film, whether it's that good or not, well that's up to opinion. But the point is strong that even if you have the ability and the talents, someone has to recognize that and give you a chance.

Even for my dad, he worked really hard to prove his selling skills for a real estate company, and the owner of that company co-signed the loan on his first apartment complex when he left the company, for $1 down. Without that guy believing in my dad, he wouldn't have gotten his big break at that time, anyway. And that is where he made his first million. Obviously, he worked his BUTT off to get to that point, and he did know what he was doing, but he still had to have that connection where someone else said, yes, I believe in you and I think you're going to be a winner.
 
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