3minds2bodies
Member
Can someone with Celtx read the intro of my comedy about a guy who gets dumped so he jumps back into the dating world. It's a bit weird cuz the guys act like girls and the girls act like guys all to enforce who wears the pants.
Romantic Comedy draft #2
- Thread starter 3minds2bodies
- Start date
How long is it? I'd be willing to read at least up to the inciting incident. Send me a PM. You can check out my writing style / skill here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=178514
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=178514
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
You could also export it from Celtx as a PDF, as many pages as needed. Then anybody can read it, whether they use Celtx or not.
3minds2bodies
Member
its roughly 13 pages.....what is ur email
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
3minds2bodies
Member
pm'ed u back
3minds2bodies
Member
so what did u guys think?
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
Just looking at the first 13 pages, it appears to be the start of a story where the hero loses a gal who is less than sympathetic to their first sexual encounter, leading to a goal for the hero to find a better gal, a new romance. The story could really take off from there on. The story kept my interest, a bit difficult because of formatting issues, but you put in conflict in the scenes which is a good thing.
You said you will be producing/directing this yourself. If so you can of course write it any way you want to, ignore convention. But learning some screenwriting standards will help actors and other artists work with you even if you write and direct it. So, maybe consider looking at formatting standards for sluglines (spacing, hyphenation), using uppercase the first time a character is seen, being consistent with character names (father, POP), think about how people speak in terms of use of contractions or not (That is great mom. That's great mom.). End each sentence with a period. Break up long paragraphs into fragments about 2 lines long, in other words you want lots of white space, makes for a more vertical faster read by the reader. The use of "We see", "We are" is controversial; many writers would say don't use those phrases as it takes the reader out of the story, removes the suspension of disbelief. Also go for as much active tense writing as you can; go on an "-ing" hunt and change such verbs to forms without the ing whenever part of the subject of the sentence ('Joe grabs his dog Chester' is better than 'Joe is grabbing his dog Chester' is way better than 'Chester is grabbed by Joe').
Looks like you have the start of a story well under way. Keep at it!
~randall
You said you will be producing/directing this yourself. If so you can of course write it any way you want to, ignore convention. But learning some screenwriting standards will help actors and other artists work with you even if you write and direct it. So, maybe consider looking at formatting standards for sluglines (spacing, hyphenation), using uppercase the first time a character is seen, being consistent with character names (father, POP), think about how people speak in terms of use of contractions or not (That is great mom. That's great mom.). End each sentence with a period. Break up long paragraphs into fragments about 2 lines long, in other words you want lots of white space, makes for a more vertical faster read by the reader. The use of "We see", "We are" is controversial; many writers would say don't use those phrases as it takes the reader out of the story, removes the suspension of disbelief. Also go for as much active tense writing as you can; go on an "-ing" hunt and change such verbs to forms without the ing whenever part of the subject of the sentence ('Joe grabs his dog Chester' is better than 'Joe is grabbing his dog Chester' is way better than 'Chester is grabbed by Joe').
Looks like you have the start of a story well under way. Keep at it!
~randall
Last edited:
3minds2bodies
Member
thank you i will get right on it
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Randall does offer some good advice, and he's right even if you are directing/producing it yourself, it's really for the other craftsman, the other people helping you out, to make things appear the way we're all used to seeing them. That being said, I wouldn't worry about nitpicky details TOO much. I mean capitalizing a name the first time it appears is a stupid convention as far as writers are concerned, it's basically just so that an idiot producer without proper reading skills can quickly skim your script and go "OK there's another character!" I don't even see it as that useful because frankly sometimes you just have a character utter a line, without being introduced first. "CROWD MEMBER 3: Hey, stop that guy!" or something along those lines. So I don't see how it's really that useful. If that's all that is wrong with a script, nobody will care. But it's convention and it's better to follow convention than not, just because you may as well do everything you can right.
I also wouldn't worry too much about contractions, I have the same issue, coming from a formal writing background it's harder for me to write conversationally than to write proper grammar and English, with no contractions. That being said, what does it matter if it's "That's" or "That is"? It can be changed when you shoot to whatever the actor feels is most comfortable. It's your script, there's no way you're going to be a script Nazi about it on set.
Frankly there's no reason to do that either, I don't care what film you're doing, a script is meant to be changed on set to whatever works the best. If that means the entire line is changed on improv, so be it. The script is just there to get you on set and to get everything setup properly so that you know all of the ingredients that go into it. If one line is changed from one sentence to another, with the same basic meaning, then the script was properly adhered to if you ask me. It was never meant to be exact. And if the screenwriter is not the director, and gets all bent out of shape, maybe he should 1) Learn to be a professional (this happens constantly, after all) and 2) Learn to become a director, since a writer has no place saying what the final product is going to look like. He's just the architect, not the foreman. The main reason that anyone gets strict about adhering to a script is simply because you don't want your actor changing the lines EVERY take, especially when you're shooting coverage, because then if this happens with a lot of lines on a regular basis, suddenly you can't cut around using your coverage very easily because you can never figure out what anyone is going to say next. So when I say a script should be taken lightly, I don't mean on set everything should be changed constantly, just that if a line changes from "That's really stupid, just get in the car!" to "That's retarded, get in the car!" It's not a big deal.
I also wouldn't worry too much about contractions, I have the same issue, coming from a formal writing background it's harder for me to write conversationally than to write proper grammar and English, with no contractions. That being said, what does it matter if it's "That's" or "That is"? It can be changed when you shoot to whatever the actor feels is most comfortable. It's your script, there's no way you're going to be a script Nazi about it on set.
Frankly there's no reason to do that either, I don't care what film you're doing, a script is meant to be changed on set to whatever works the best. If that means the entire line is changed on improv, so be it. The script is just there to get you on set and to get everything setup properly so that you know all of the ingredients that go into it. If one line is changed from one sentence to another, with the same basic meaning, then the script was properly adhered to if you ask me. It was never meant to be exact. And if the screenwriter is not the director, and gets all bent out of shape, maybe he should 1) Learn to be a professional (this happens constantly, after all) and 2) Learn to become a director, since a writer has no place saying what the final product is going to look like. He's just the architect, not the foreman. The main reason that anyone gets strict about adhering to a script is simply because you don't want your actor changing the lines EVERY take, especially when you're shooting coverage, because then if this happens with a lot of lines on a regular basis, suddenly you can't cut around using your coverage very easily because you can never figure out what anyone is going to say next. So when I say a script should be taken lightly, I don't mean on set everything should be changed constantly, just that if a line changes from "That's really stupid, just get in the car!" to "That's retarded, get in the car!" It's not a big deal.
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
You said you like these two films, so maybe read the screenplays to see how the writers do some of the things discussed in this thread:
~randall
~randall
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
Anything I said, use or lose, just my nickel's worth of thought. Always good to get feedback from several writers. Like I said (PM msg), maybe paste in a page of your script for feedback here from more writers. Just a thought. 
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
Not sure if you have a first draft yet or not. If you are still writing a first draft, ignore anything I say or others say here if you want, let those words flow, get the first draft done using any style and any words you want to, the point is to get the clay on the wheel and make a cylinder (first draft); the the rewrite comes, shaping it all using more established tricks of the trade. See John Rainey's craft notes for some good tips on realling making your script shine during rewrites.
~randall
~randall
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
I would respectfully disagree. Using or not using contractions when writing dialog is critical to deciding how a character's dialog is going to sound. And actors need to learn their lines one way or another, prior to shooting, so it needs to be written as intended to be spoken by the actors. Most people speak with contractions, unless they are from a foreign country and speaking a non-native language, or if they are Forrest Gump, or Data from Star Trek the Next Generation. So the writer has to decide if contractions (or not) are appropriate or not for each character. But it should be written on the page as intended for actors to memorize and speak during shooting. My two cents of thought, use or lose it. ~randall
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Well
Well
Randall -- thanks for the link, that was a good one. I enjoyed reading it. I find that is really true, actually, it's very reasonable (NOT easy) to get a lot of material done quickly. I spent about 10 days outlining my script. As it is the second feature script I've ever outlined (the first was for a class, where we were only required to write the first 35 pages or so), my outline has proved to be somewhat... inadequate. I would give it maybe a B- if I had to judge it. Definitely got me writing, definitely delivers a solid structure, but it was wrong to think it would get me to 90 pages, when in fact it looks more like 77. I'll need to redo some of the structure to get to 90. The good part is that every act seems to be about the same amount short, so it's not all wonky, it just means a little needs to be added to each, which could perhaps mean an additional subplot of sorts, some sort of additional but parallel storyline. I have to figure out what works. In any case, I have written 55 pages in a week. I will finish a draft of the script early next week. That's pretty fast work. Granted it will take me much longer to mull over the script and continue to polish it.
That being the case I've already begun preliminary outlining of a second feature script, and I intend to write that quickly. More quickly than this. I'm kind of insane sometimes, and... I have a rather crazy idea. I want to get a much better outline, lie it better be an A+, and I want to write an entire feature script in a day. Or as close as possible, 90 to 100 pages, 24 hours. It will take about the most intense concentration imaginable and it better be a very good day. I'll probably fail. But, if I fail, I'll at least have a lot of pages done and it will be worth the effort. I want to prepare it like a rocket launch, though, detailing every aspect of the outline so that when I sit down to write it flows much easier. And I will disconnect the Internet that day entirely, I get distracted too easily, I cannot have Internet while doing that or I'll fail.
As for the contractions, what I was saying isn't so much that the entire script should be riddled with dialogue as it shouldn't be, when you film it, but that if you make those mistakes any time in earlier drafts, I wouldn't worry about it. If your final script has a few such lines, it's probably not the end of the world if you have good acting talent. The issue with filmmaking is you need a lot of different creative people to save you from potential mistakes, if you cannot save yourself. So Randall, I agree with you, basically. If your script is bullet-proof, i.e. just how you want it more or less, and you've really obsessed over every aspect and are happy with it, *it will still change* but at least it will be extremely good. This allows fewer opportunities to mess up down the road. If you then on top of that surround yourself with very good actors, then they will be able to correct or help you massage a few of the lines that may still, even after all of that work, not sound quite right.
I know on my script, this first one, I have two actors, my lead actor and actress, on board from the start, and they are enthusiastic script readers and will be able to help go over the dialogue and figure out what sounds right and how we can finesse this. I suppose I wouldn't trust any actors with this, but they are both extremely creative and have both done other roles, whether that's producing, directing, etc., often to serve their acting careers, or just because they are that creatively inclined.
Well
Randall -- thanks for the link, that was a good one. I enjoyed reading it. I find that is really true, actually, it's very reasonable (NOT easy) to get a lot of material done quickly. I spent about 10 days outlining my script. As it is the second feature script I've ever outlined (the first was for a class, where we were only required to write the first 35 pages or so), my outline has proved to be somewhat... inadequate. I would give it maybe a B- if I had to judge it. Definitely got me writing, definitely delivers a solid structure, but it was wrong to think it would get me to 90 pages, when in fact it looks more like 77. I'll need to redo some of the structure to get to 90. The good part is that every act seems to be about the same amount short, so it's not all wonky, it just means a little needs to be added to each, which could perhaps mean an additional subplot of sorts, some sort of additional but parallel storyline. I have to figure out what works. In any case, I have written 55 pages in a week. I will finish a draft of the script early next week. That's pretty fast work. Granted it will take me much longer to mull over the script and continue to polish it.
That being the case I've already begun preliminary outlining of a second feature script, and I intend to write that quickly. More quickly than this. I'm kind of insane sometimes, and... I have a rather crazy idea. I want to get a much better outline, lie it better be an A+, and I want to write an entire feature script in a day. Or as close as possible, 90 to 100 pages, 24 hours. It will take about the most intense concentration imaginable and it better be a very good day. I'll probably fail. But, if I fail, I'll at least have a lot of pages done and it will be worth the effort. I want to prepare it like a rocket launch, though, detailing every aspect of the outline so that when I sit down to write it flows much easier. And I will disconnect the Internet that day entirely, I get distracted too easily, I cannot have Internet while doing that or I'll fail.
As for the contractions, what I was saying isn't so much that the entire script should be riddled with dialogue as it shouldn't be, when you film it, but that if you make those mistakes any time in earlier drafts, I wouldn't worry about it. If your final script has a few such lines, it's probably not the end of the world if you have good acting talent. The issue with filmmaking is you need a lot of different creative people to save you from potential mistakes, if you cannot save yourself. So Randall, I agree with you, basically. If your script is bullet-proof, i.e. just how you want it more or less, and you've really obsessed over every aspect and are happy with it, *it will still change* but at least it will be extremely good. This allows fewer opportunities to mess up down the road. If you then on top of that surround yourself with very good actors, then they will be able to correct or help you massage a few of the lines that may still, even after all of that work, not sound quite right.
I know on my script, this first one, I have two actors, my lead actor and actress, on board from the start, and they are enthusiastic script readers and will be able to help go over the dialogue and figure out what sounds right and how we can finesse this. I suppose I wouldn't trust any actors with this, but they are both extremely creative and have both done other roles, whether that's producing, directing, etc., often to serve their acting careers, or just because they are that creatively inclined.
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
I am sure what you sent me was your first draft, so you will likely be doing the following. Be sure during rewrites to go for extremes (=drama). Look at scenes, how can the conflict be elevated? For example, the bedroom scene -- can it be made any worse, more embarassing, higher conflict? Does the hero live in a home with a leaky room and the roof caves in from rainwater that wets them all over? Does he have a fish aquarium with a pet piranha that bites the gal who dips her finger in to pet the fish? Anything to up the intensity and comedy. Does he pull his condom out of his wallet and it is all dried up and falls apart? You get the idea.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Randall any advice on the best way to evaluate a scene and sort of see the full comedy potential WITHOUT making it over-the-top?
In other words, if I'm happy with the dramatic element, and this particular scene moves the story along as it should, and what the characters say (in essence) is consistent with who they are, what they'd do, etc., what is the best way I can take what I feel like is a bit of a flat, necessary scene and turn it into something funnier without it being hokey? I have heard a lot of advice about not trying to make every line as witty and clever as possible because it comes across essentially as too "written" and not natural enough, not realistic, like these people would never actually say that. When i'm watching a movie, I love some of the old screwball comedies with rapid fire witty lines, that works for me in those films, but at the same time I feel like my story has really good dramatic value too. It's realistic. It could actually happen, the conflict is real, and the drama is good. The key is that let's say right now I think the script is a 6 on a scale of 1 to 10 in comedy value, how can I get it to more like an 8 where I'd be satisfied with that?
I don't want it to be The Hangover, because I don't want it to be over-the-top just for laughs (even though I love The Hangover, don't get me wrong! That's just not my film). Do you have some certain way of evaluating a scene and sort of seeing the humor in it where maybe as initially written it wasn't as funny?
In other words, if I'm happy with the dramatic element, and this particular scene moves the story along as it should, and what the characters say (in essence) is consistent with who they are, what they'd do, etc., what is the best way I can take what I feel like is a bit of a flat, necessary scene and turn it into something funnier without it being hokey? I have heard a lot of advice about not trying to make every line as witty and clever as possible because it comes across essentially as too "written" and not natural enough, not realistic, like these people would never actually say that. When i'm watching a movie, I love some of the old screwball comedies with rapid fire witty lines, that works for me in those films, but at the same time I feel like my story has really good dramatic value too. It's realistic. It could actually happen, the conflict is real, and the drama is good. The key is that let's say right now I think the script is a 6 on a scale of 1 to 10 in comedy value, how can I get it to more like an 8 where I'd be satisfied with that?
I don't want it to be The Hangover, because I don't want it to be over-the-top just for laughs (even though I love The Hangover, don't get me wrong! That's just not my film). Do you have some certain way of evaluating a scene and sort of seeing the humor in it where maybe as initially written it wasn't as funny?
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
Two books I have read you might want to get hold of are Writing the Romantic Comedy and this one. Often comedy is funny t the reader/viewer, not to the characters. Schadenfreude and all that.
Watch romcoms, which often are more dark than funny, we laugh at the pain the characters go through. Some of my favorite romcoms are Her Alibi, Nobody's Fool (not the one with Paul Newman, this one written by Oscar nominated screenwriter Beth Henley), Just Married.
I have only written one romcom feature so I am learning too. Take the above as my ten cents of thought on the matter. I owe you some change.
~randall
Watch romcoms, which often are more dark than funny, we laugh at the pain the characters go through. Some of my favorite romcoms are Her Alibi, Nobody's Fool (not the one with Paul Newman, this one written by Oscar nominated screenwriter Beth Henley), Just Married.
I have only written one romcom feature so I am learning too. Take the above as my ten cents of thought on the matter. I owe you some change.
~randall
Randall_Oelerich
Veteran
Every scene should have some sort of conflict, internal or external (another character or the environment, etc). I am learning to always make sure each and every scene has conflict. The degree of conflict should probably be paced according to the escalating story line and turning points. (any other writers here have thoughts on this?). Any type of conflict that fits the scene.
Joe wants to get laid with the gal, she wants romance; the leaky roof during the romantic rain storm caves in ruining his plan. Conflict.
Check out Michael Hauge's DVD on writing romantic comedy and romance, quite good. Romcom are not so much about comedy as one would think, but about pain, healing a deep inner emotional wound, finding someone to accept us for who we are in spite of our flaws. And awkward courtship to get there. Trust, falling in love, losing that, realization, then the obligatory cliche race to the airport scene, then bonding, then FADE OUT.
Joe wants to get laid with the gal, she wants romance; the leaky roof during the romantic rain storm caves in ruining his plan. Conflict.
Check out Michael Hauge's DVD on writing romantic comedy and romance, quite good. Romcom are not so much about comedy as one would think, but about pain, healing a deep inner emotional wound, finding someone to accept us for who we are in spite of our flaws. And awkward courtship to get there. Trust, falling in love, losing that, realization, then the obligatory cliche race to the airport scene, then bonding, then FADE OUT.
3minds2bodies
Member
mr.randall that was my second draft.....would you like to read my first draft? and i will download thsoe 2 screenplays right now