Roland R-88 or Sound Devices 722

L

lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com

Well-known member
I have a budget of about $3K and looking into buying either the Roland R-88 or Sound Devices 722. I'm using it 90% as a separate audio recorder for video recording. Most of the times, at various venues I can't run 200-ft of XLR cables. It'd take at least 3-4 hours to properly put all rubber cable protectors and countless gaffer tape usage in order to comply w/ fire dept safety requirements. It's simply too labor-intensive for running cables. Wireless Sennheiser G3 Evolution is OK, but doesn't sound good on music because the high freqs get cut off a lot. And it's not 100% interference free. Few times I get small RF interferences. Time code in & high TC accuracy is a must-have. I do not like syncing multi-cam to the sound because it's just plain mickey mouse, consumer hocus pocus stuff. At times it's accurate. Others I'm off about 1-2 sec. The costs of fixing it in post are far greater than properly jam sync all devices to a stable master clock (Denecke or Ambient). In addition, it's a pain in the @!@ to find the precise start and stop time of the performance in a 12-hr day. I typically shoot a 10-12 hour event comprising of live speeches, band, and vocal music . TC is the only way to get things done efficiently. Fast post production turn around of less than 1-2 days after the event. Impossible to do pull it off w/ out SMPTE TC. Editing all in FCP X. Their multi cam edit to TC is a breeze. All five 2/3" broadcast video cameras are jam synced to a master clock also.

Sound Devices 722 is nice, but 2-track can be limited if I ever have the need for 4-track. For the same price, does anybody know if the Roland R-88 is any good? Very few reviews on this unit. Skeptical. I'm mostly recording from the live venue' final mix out fr. the soundboard. Few times I'll be bringing my own mics. The R-88 looks a bit big to carry around.
 
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When it comes to this amount of spending, and on a piece of gear that you will probably use for a very long time, I would not go for a compromise. If the 722 has to few channels, don't consider it just because the Money is right, and the same if the R-88 seems to big (size and weight are important factors should you ever work over the sholder). Have you thought about a used 744? Sounds like what you may be looking for, and SD gear usually hold their quality and value very well even when used. You may also take a look at the new Zaxcom Maxx.
 
I would agree about doing it properly.

The 744T only has two mic. pre-amps., though.

The AETA 4MinX is 8 tracks with 4 mic. pre-amps. and, in Europe, is cheaper than the 788T.

Otherwise, look at the SD 788T or 644.

The R-44 is 4 channels and the R-88 is 8-channels, but these are really semi-pro units. Good value at their price point, but not up to the standard of AETA, Sonosax, Nagra or SD.
 
It appears that quality over quantity counts. Roland R-88 8-track is just too good to be true to me. 8-track typically runs at least $8K. But $2.5K is just too cheap somehow. Something has to be compromised - I think it's the preamps and overall quality of the unit.

I can relate to food. It's like eating generic buffet food vs. specialized menu. The specialized menu simply tastes better overall.



John Willett said:
I would agree about doing it properly.

The 744T only has two mic. pre-amps., though.

The AETA 4MinX is 8 tracks with 4 mic. pre-amps. and, in Europe, is cheaper than the 788T.

Otherwise, look at the SD 788T or 644.

The R-44 is 4 channels and the R-88 is 8-channels, but these are really semi-pro units. Good value at their price point, but not up to the standard of AETA, Sonosax, Nagra or SD.
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lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...2_722_2_Channel_High_Resolution_Portable.html

I'd never pay anything over $2.5K with out SMPTE TC. It appears world clock is the same thing as TC or I'm mistaken for something else.
Click to expand...

Word Clock is not the same as SMPTE Time Code. Word clock allows the device to sync to another device while keeping sample rates in sync, avoidng clocking errors (which affect sample rate - 44.1k, 48k, etc.). This can be, and often is (especially in music recording), done without time code.

The term "word clock" refers to the "words" of digital recording. In digital audio, there are two main aspects: the sample rate and the bit depth. Sample rate determines how often per second the audio is "sampled" as digital audio does not actually record an unbroken stream of sound like analog does. So, at 48kHz the device is recording samples 48,000 per second. Bit depth determines how much information is recorded each time a sample is taken. At 16 bits, each sample contains 16 1s and 0s (bits) and at 24 bit each sample contains 24 1s and 0s. These bits make up words. So 24-bit/48kHz audio records 48,000 words (aka samples) per second, and each word contains 24 bits.

The problem is that a timing crystal (the device that regulates that clock in each digital audio recorder) may not run at a perfect 48,000 words per second (or 44,100, or 96,000, etc.). And the crystals between two separate devices may not run at the same, imperfect rate. Connecting the two without making one of them the master device (word clock) can cause clocking errors, which can create audible artifacts in the recorded sound. BUT, use two devices that have word clock I/O, and either set one as the master or connect them both as slaves to an external master clock, and the clocking errors will be gone.

If you want time code on the recorder you linked to, you need to get the 722T (the "T" in any Sound Devices recorder indicates that it utilizes time code).
 
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Ah yes. I hired a sound recordist w/ SD744T recently. The guy recommended a cheaper SD722. I may of forget the T after the model. My mistake was not taking down note, but in memory. It was either the 722 or 702... This is a huge error on my part. Thanks for the concise explanation otherwise I'd not know the difference between world clock and TC. Sound is not my specialized area. Good thing I do my research first rather than hastily jumping to buy it. I would buy the SD702T instead as it offers SMPTE TC and CF card vs hdd. The price is pretty much the same (~$2595 new). I don't see 722T. Perhaps it's discontinued and replaced by the 702T.


Alex H. said:
Word Clock is not the same as SMPTE Time Code. Word clock allows the device to sync to another device while keeping sample rates in sync, avoidng clocking errors (which affect sample rate - 44.1k, 48k, etc.). This can be, and often is (especially in music recording), done without time code.

The term "word clock" refers to the "words" of digital recording. In digital audio, there are two main aspects: the sample rate and the bit depth. Sample rate determines how often per second the audio is "sampled" as digital audio does not actually record an unbroken stream of sound like analog does. So, at 48kHz the device is recording samples 48,000 per second. Bit depth determines how much information is recorded each time a sample is taken. At 16 bits, each sample contains 16 1s and 0s (bits) and at 24 bit each sample contains 24 1s and 0s. These bits make up words. So 24-bit/48kHz audio records 48,000 words (aka samples) per second, and each word contains 24 bits.

The problem is that a timing crystal (the device that regulates that clock in each digital audio recorder) may not run at a perfect 48,000 words per second (or 44,100, or 96,000, etc.). And the crystals between two separate devices may not run at the same, imperfect rate. Connecting the two without making one of them the master device (word clock) can cause clocking errors, which can create audible artifacts in the recorded sound. BUT, use two devices that have word clock I/O, and either set one as the master or connect them both as slaves to an external master clock, and the clocking errors will be gone.

If you want time code on the recorder you linked to, you need to get the 722T (the "T" in any Sound Devices recorder indicates that it utilizes time code).
Click to expand...
 
"It appears world clock is the same thing as TC or I'm mistaken for something"
'Time Code' and 'Word clock' are somewhat different. Read up.
 
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