GH3 Rode VideoMic Pro or Sennheiser MKE 400 on GH3?

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freezeframereality

Active member
I have watched a lot of comparison videos on YouTube, I read a few reviews and I am still not sure which of these two mics would fit better to a GH3 in run and gun scenarios. My main purpose is to record useable interview sound (voxpops, short distance to subject) and atmosphere.

What I like about the MKE 400 is its slightly better build quality, its smaller size and that it's running for approx. 300 hours from one single AAA-battery. I am especially interested in how low you can set the input level on the GH3 when using the MKE 400 for short distance interviews (where the sound level reaches -12 to -9 dBFS max).

I know the VideoMic Pro has a +20 dB boost option which seems to be quite interesting when recording with a low input level on the GH3. But is this option really needed on the GH3?

If anyone has used one of these mics on a GH3 in comparable situations I would be happy about any advice.
 
freezeframereality said:
I know the VideoMic Pro has a +20 dB boost option which seems to be quite interesting when recording with a low input level on the GH3. But is this option really needed on the GH3?
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Yes, between these two mics I would easily pick the Rode Video Mic Pro over the MKE400.

1- I prefer the audio quality of the VMP over the MKE400. ( I find the MKE400 mic sounds "thin" in comparison )

2- The GH3 audio has a nasty AGC circuit that raises the noise-floor as you raise the camera audiio setting, so setting the camera audio level higher than 1 will start to introduce noise from the AGC circuit. The ideal signal for the GH3 is a strong -15 dB audio signal, so having the +20 dB feature of the VMP makes a big difference in keeping the noise-floor low.

I really like the new Sennheiser MKE600 shotgun mic, but this is a much larger XLR professional mic and will require an external pre-amp to use with the GH3.
 
TheDingo, thanks a lot for your feedback, much appreciated.

Yes, you're right, in some of those YouTube-reviews I found the MKE400's sound really thin too, but then in some other videos the sound of the subject's voice was really quite acceptable. Take a look at Sam Mallery's review who tested the MKE400 versus the VideoMic Pro on his GH2:

Source: http://www.sam-mallery.com/2011/04/røde-videomic-pro-vs-sennheiser-mke-400-indoors-out/

He writes:
"There are shootout videos on YouTube between these two mics which seem to portray the MKE 400 as thinner sounding. This wasn’t my experience. Simply by adjusting the volume level a few dB in Final Cut Pro and using the wind cut switches properly, the mics sounded nearly identical. (...) The GH2 does have level controls, but the VideoMic Pro was still too hot when set at 0dB. The +20dB setting sounded awful on the GH2."

I never owned a GH2, so I don't know how much of his test makes sense for the GH3.

The MKE400 has a +/- switch to control sensitivity somehow. Did you (or somebody else) test the MKE400 with the button switched to the + setting, the GH3's audio level set to 1 and a subject at a distance between 1 or 2 metres in front of the camera? I would really be interested in the results.

I wish I could use my Sennheiser K6/ME66/ME64 mics for the GH3 but they need to be preamped and are way too bulky for this little camera.
 
freezeframereality said:
I wish I could use my Sennheiser K6/ME66/ME64 mics for the GH3
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I'm not a fan of the Sennheiser K6/ME66 mic because I find it sounds "tinny", with weak lower frequency response. ( yes you can bring some of this back in post, but I prefer a mic that doesn't need EQ )

For outdoor recording I would pick a Rode NTG-2 mic or the new Sennheiser MKE600 mic, which both sound better to my ears.

For indoor recording I would use a high quality hyper-cardioid ( i.e. AT4053b ) or a high quality cardioid ( i.e. AT3031 or AT4021 ) over any of the low cost shotgun mics.
 
TheDingo said:
I really like the new Sennheiser MKE600 shotgun mic, but this is a much larger XLR professional mic and will require an external pre-amp to use with the GH3.
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I just plug it directly into the GH3.
I can´t always keep the GH3`s recording level at 1, of course, but for the best sound possible I wouldn´t rely on the on-camera mic anyways;)
But for sticking the camera into someones face for a quick comment, it's all good...
 
Spartacus said:
I just plug it directly into the GH3. I can´t always keep the GH3`s recording level at 1, of course, but for the best sound possible I wouldn´t rely on the on-camera mic anyways;)
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The in camera audio is great provided you feed the camera a strong signal. ( ...and when you need to turn things around ASAP, in camera audio totally rocks! )

Still, it would be nice to kill off the GH3's AGC circuit with a menu setting... :-(
 
Does anyone know where you can buy the little rubber bands that are on Video mic pro?
 
TheDingo said:
The in camera audio is great provided you feed the camera a strong signal. ( ...and when you need to turn things around ASAP, in camera audio totally rocks! )

Still, it would be nice to kill off the GH3's AGC circuit with a menu setting... :-(
Click to expand...

I also hope for AGC being one of the first things a GH3 hack will change;)
I have thought about adding a Juicelink to my setup, to get a hotter signal from the MKE600, but so far the trade off in bulk/weight/size is off putting.
For lock down interviews I use an external mixer anyways (and a 416 or hyper).
I wonder why no company is developing a as-small-as-possible amplifier, just having one XLR, P48 and a level knob or switch between +10 and +20.
 
TheDingo said:
Yes, between these two mics I would easily pick the Rode Video Mic Pro over the MKE400.

1- I prefer the audio quality of the VMP over the MKE400. ( I find the MKE400 mic sounds "thin" in comparison )

2- The GH3 audio has a nasty AGC circuit that raises the noise-floor as you raise the camera audiio setting, so setting the camera audio level higher than 1 will start to introduce noise from the AGC circuit. The ideal signal for the GH3 is a strong -15 dB audio signal, so having the +20 dB feature of the VMP makes a big difference in keeping the noise-floor low.

I really like the new Sennheiser MKE600 shotgun mic, but this is a much larger XLR professional mic and will require an external pre-amp to use with the GH3.
Click to expand...



Dingo....can you clarify what you meant by the ideal signal being -15db? What I mean is...if that is the ideal signal (and it is an option on the VMP), why ever use the 0db or +20db output option? Why not just keep the VMP set to -15db? Audio is my weak area, so I appreciate the further explanation.
 
Ianscreations said:
Dingo....can you clarify what you meant by the ideal signal being -15db? What I mean is...if that is the ideal signal (and it is an option on the VMP), why ever use the 0db or +20db output option? Why not just keep the VMP set to -15db? Audio is my weak area, so I appreciate the further explanation.
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OK, when I say the optimal audio signal for the GH3 is -15 dB, I am NOT referring to a setting on the Rode Video Mic Pro.

In general audio terms a MIC level audio signal has a signal strength of -50 dB, while a LINE level audio signal has a signal strength of 0 dB.

...Because the GH3 camera has weak pre-amps ( like most consumer audio gear ) with an annoying automatic-gain-circuit ( AGC ) that works to ruin the noise-floor of the audio the camera records, we want to reduce the effect of the weak pre-amps and the AGC on the recorded audio. To do this you have to set the GH3 camera audio level to 1, which pretty much takes the camera's pre-amps out of the picture and limits the AGC effect to only +3 dB, and leaves us with a GH3 noise-floor that varies between -66 dB to -63 dB. So when the GH3 is set this way the recorded audio will have a dynamic audio range between 63 to 66 dB, which is enough for professional purposes. ( i.e. loud, clean, un-distorted audio )

So when using the Rode Video Mic Pro, I recommend setting the VMP to the +20 dB setting, which raises the normal -50 dB MIC level output to -30 dB, which is strong enough for the GH3 camera to record with when the camera's audio recording level is set to 1. If the audio is a little low in the finished recording, you can increase the volume with your audio editor, and still have a fairly noise-free recording. ( Assuming that the ambient noise at the place where you are shooting is low. Office buildings have air-conditioning and air-circulation fans that cause hiss, along with computer fans that make noise, while home environments usually have refrigerator, furnace, and air-conditioning noise )
 
Great explanation Dingo! Thank you! I have only had two shoots, but it was at wedding rehearsal and reception. GH3 was set to audio level 1 and VMP was set at +20db. The audio got a little hot both when the crowd cheered or the band was playing. I imagine in this type of scenario where there is loud music/crowds, to have the VMP set to 0db or even -15db? Or, would you recommend in a loud setting just removing the VMP altogether and running off the internal GH3 mic? If so, what level should I maintain?
 
Ianscreations said:
I imagine in this type of scenario where there is loud music/crowds, to have the VMP set to 0db or even -15db?
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Yes, I would use the +20 dB setting when recording normal dialog audio, and you will have to test to see if the 0 dB or -15 dB works best with very loud sounds.

Ianscreations said:
Or, would you recommend in a loud setting just removing the VMP altogether and running off the internal GH3 mic?
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...If I was trying to get the best audio in these situations, I would add a short 3.5mm extension cable to the Rode VMP and connect it directly to a portable recorder in my pocket ( I would probably use my Olympus LS-12 recorder ) and also use the GH3 camera mics to pick-up ambient stereo sound for the room. ( not sure what level to set, but you could monitor and test to see what it sounds like) This way you've got two audio recordings to work with.

Another option would be to mount the Olympus LS-12 recorder on top of your GH3, which would record better quality stereo sound along with a much better limiter for loud sounds, and you could still monitor the audio with headpones. The LS-12 recorder has good mics and will run for 50 hours on 2 AA batteries. Great little recorder that costs about $150 at B&H Photo. The Tascam DR-40 is the other recorder option I would consider, which is bigger and bulkier, but it does have XLR inputs which can be used for other audio set-ups.
 
Zim said:
Does anyone know where you can buy the little rubber bands that are on Video mic pro?
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FYI I recently bought a second VMP & the base has changed, along with the suspension system. It still uses rubber cables, but a different style that would not work on the original design.
 
A few years ago I had a tripod fall over and the base of my VideoMic snapped. I emailed Rode about buying replacement parts and they actually sent me everything for free, including more rubber bands. So if you can't find replacement bands from a shop, I'm sure Rode would sell (or give, if you're as lucky as me) you some directly.
 
Shure VP83 is so much better in my opinion than either the MKE400 or the Videomic pro on my GH3 for run and gun.

Size, allot smaller than the Rode but bigger than the MKE400

Build quality, so much better and tougher than the rode. All metal as opposed to plastic

Sound quality, I was happy with the Rode (Mke400 sounded very thin) until I heard the Shure. It is cleaner sounding with better side and rear rejection.

Style, so much more discrete than the Rode, no huge lettering on the side. looks really good on the camera.

Price, about £20 more than the Rode, but feels like it could cost twice the price.

It's been a long search but I am finally happy so wanted to share my experience.
 
nodyah said:
Shure VP83 is so much better in my opinion than either the MKE400 or the Videomic pro on my GH3 for run and gun.
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The version with integrated recorder looks interesting.

Though there are better recorders with integrate mics, the Shure VP83F could replace other VideoMics in the kit, & serve dual purposes, either onboard, or hidden on set. Could be great for documentary work.

Seems Rode bailed on the VideoMic HD & removed it from their site.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth...iew-shure-vp83-lenshopper-shotgun-microphones

http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Rode-VideoMic-HD.jpg
 
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Yesterday I placed an order for the Shure VP83F, & accessories, but cancelled it after looking closer at the specs.

My main concern is that it seems that the gain could be optimized for it's internal recorder, or for the GH3, but not both. The VP83F offers "60dB gain range, adjustable in 1dB increments, as well as a low-cut filter", but it's Camera Out setting is limited to 0, -10, or -20 db.

Meanwhile the GH3 seems to respond best to +20 db, or so, of gain in order to minimalize the AGC, so a setting that was optimal for the camera would be too hot for the Shure's internal recorder.

I'm far from an audio expert, & almost always work with a SoundPerson, so would love to have my misgivings proven wrong.

Shure's VP83F user guide
http://cdn.shure.com/user_guide/upload/2012/VP83F_User_Guide.pdf

Best,
Bern

PS I may still buy in as there are times I shoot B-Roll slomo in-camera, but would like the option for onboard sound, & don't want to record in 60P. This is primarily so I can check flicker/strobing/etc in the field, but also due to my main client's request that raw footage be delivered in a 24P wrapper.
 
Spartacus said:
I just plug it directly into the GH3.
I can´t always keep the GH3`s recording level at 1, of course, but for the best sound possible I wouldn´t rely on the on-camera mic anyways;)
But for sticking the camera into someones face for a quick comment, it's all good...
Click to expand...

Can you really just plug in a Rode ntg-2 directly into the gh3? I'd like to get this mic and with this little beauty from Triton audio, http://tritonaudio.com/index.php?sectionid=4&option=com_content&task=category&id=17&Itemid=33, the Fethead preamp along with my zoom hn-4 - any thoughts on this setup?
 
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