Rigging your FS100

I could use all the help I can get in terms of room for error. I am shooting in windy golf course situations all the time. Does anyone like the build quality if what Steve at CPMFILMTOOLS.COM is offering. Speaking of build quality, has anyone read Nigel Cooper's review about the FS100? http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=268
 
It really depends on the signal to noise ratio of the audio system. 24-bit isn't going to do ANYTHING for you if the noise floor is loud enough that you are just recording more noise than you would in a 16-bit system. I have both 16-bit recorders and 24-bit recorders and where I notice the difference is in the pre-amps I use AND the room I am recording in. What you want to do is maximize the signal (like actors voice) to the noise (which is also ambience in the room). Even if you record at 24-bit, if you record in the lower bits to protect your headroom, I wouldn't say you are gaining anything other than overload protection, and worse, you are going to get more noise because you are using a smaller section of possibly the same noise floor. To get a round this, I record 2 channels of audio at the same time, one 12db lower since I do not record stereo to camera, from the same mic. Because of this, I effectively have a HUGE range of audio if I need to reconstruct something from a clipped peak that was unexpected. And if I had scenes that required more than 1 microphone, I'd either just run through the scenes to test the levels, or record to separate audio and sync in post.

I have a feeling the converters in the FS100 will really be around the same quality of what my AF100 has, and they are not quiet (48kHz/16-bit). They do have noise, but, given all the other noise in a scene from ambience, has NEVER been a problem for me.

I use the CPMFilmTools sidewinder. I like it. I plan on using it with my FS100 as well.

Until I get the camera, I am not sure how I will use it in all regards. I want to use it on my Blackbird Stabilizer as well. I wonder about the weight distribution.
 
That's reassuring, Rick. So do you think you will pass on using a separate recorder with your FS? Curious to know what pre-amp you use. And Nigel?
 
I saw the old post about Kitting out the FS100 and put up pretty much the same shot (sans the female talent), but as I have shot with ENG-type camcorders and am now making more of a move to this form factor, I find myself in the market for a "rig." The follow focus being a major consideration. I know that autofocus in this level of video is pretty dicey, which reasons as to why the FF is so vital. I was reading another thread where this co. seems to be getting quite a bit of praise. Here's their first attempt at a rig for the FS: http://www.trusmt.com/en/infoview.asp?Id=8
 
Rick Burnett said:
It really depends on the signal to noise ratio of the audio system. 24-bit isn't going to do ANYTHING for you if the noise floor is loud enough that you are just recording more noise than you would in a 16-bit system. I have both 16-bit recorders and 24-bit recorders and where I notice the difference is in the pre-amps I use AND the room I am recording in. What you want to do is maximize the signal (like actors voice) to the noise (which is also ambience in the room). Even if you record at 24-bit, if you record in the lower bits to protect your headroom, I wouldn't say you are gaining anything other than overload protection, and worse, you are going to get more noise because you are using a smaller section of possibly the same noise floor. To get a round this, I record 2 channels of audio at the same time, one 12db lower since I do not record stereo to camera, from the same mic. Because of this, I effectively have a HUGE range of audio if I need to reconstruct something from a clipped peak that was unexpected. And if I had scenes that required more than 1 microphone, I'd either just run through the scenes to test the levels, or record to separate audio and sync in post.

I have a feeling the converters in the FS100 will really be around the same quality of what my AF100 has, and they are not quiet (48kHz/16-bit). They do have noise, but, given all the other noise in a scene from ambience, has NEVER been a problem for me.

I use the CPMFilmTools sidewinder. I like it. I plan on using it with my FS100 as well.

Until I get the camera, I am not sure how I will use it in all regards. I want to use it on my Blackbird Stabilizer as well. I wonder about the weight distribution.
Click to expand...

Rick: Let me know the next time you come to Maui so I can get your green fees :) Do you shoot with a crew or do a lot yourself? I ask because I am a lone wolf and am not accustomed to the modular systems many here seem to use regularly. Do you carry your recorder/mixer/receivers in a bag or bolt them to your 'rig'?
 
olindacat said:
Rick: Let me know the next time you come to Maui so I can get your green fees :) Do you shoot with a crew or do a lot yourself? I ask because I am a lone wolf and am not accustomed to the modular systems many here seem to use regularly. Do you carry your recorder/mixer/receivers in a bag or bolt them to your 'rig'?
Click to expand...

I shoot with a very small crew. Typically we have 3 to 4 people working at most. We switch off and on who is doing what. For this reason, I try and keep my system VERY modular and VERY fast to change around. Everything has Manfrotto plates on them so I can change in a heartbeat from my shoulder rig, to my stabilizer, to my tripod, to my monopod.

Here is a video with us working with the 7D. Of course, the crane and dolly shots took more time, but I still set them up entirely while two others were shooting other stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ial0CH7P84&feature=youtu.be
 
It's too bad the recorders don't have false color and peaking. I am considering replacing the Marshall 5" I was planning on getting with the Samurai, but those two features are pretty key. I realize they are on the camera viewfinder, but that's a bit small...
 
imag said:
It's too bad the recorders don't have false color and peaking. I am considering replacing the Marshall 5" I was planning on getting with the Samurai, but those two features are pretty key. I realize they are on the camera viewfinder, but that's a bit small...
Click to expand...

We are adding some montor-assist functions; can't put a date on it yet, though.

Dave Shapton
Atomos
 
That's great Dave. Thanks so much for weighing in. Would those be firmware upgrades, or would we have to wait for a product rev? I'm assuming (hoping) the former. Just knowing those are coming pushes me in that direction...
 
Rick Burnett said:
I shoot with a very small crew. Typically we have 3 to 4 people working at most. We switch off and on who is doing what. For this reason, I try and keep my system VERY modular and VERY fast to change around. Everything has Manfrotto plates on them so I can change in a heartbeat from my shoulder rig, to my stabilizer, to my tripod, to my monopod.

Here is a video with us working with the 7D. Of course, the crane and dolly shots took more time, but I still set them up entirely while two others were shooting other stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ial0CH7P84&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...

Thanks, Rick. Very cool to see your crew in action.
 
No problem. I like to show people that you can in fact work with smaller groups IF you have people who work well together AND have a good skill set. Balance. I am REALLY looking forward to using the FS100 in this same setting.
 
looking at the chart from Abel Cine, it confirms my fear that there is no External Recorder that is made to work 100% with the FS100
the closest one is the Nanoflash, but you'll lose the 1080p at 60fps uncompressed

the FS100 also needs a HDMI to SDI-Loop Through Recorder with no compression
 
speedracerlo said:
looking at the chart from Abel Cine, it confirms my fear that there is no External Recorder that is made to work 100% with the FS100
the closest one is the Nanoflash, but you'll lose the 1080p at 60fps uncompressed

the FS100 also needs a HDMI to SDI-Loop Through Recorder with no compression
Click to expand...

Speed: I have been trying to find a solution for days. There is (I think) a way to record 'uncompressed 1080p60 externally'. Here's what I'm looking at to take the HDMI 1.4 1080p60 4:2:2 signal from the FS100 to an external recorder that 'promises' to actually do 1080p60. I think this will work, but don't know yet as I am not an expert but the specs seem to add up:

1. Use the Atlona AT-HD-3GSDI to convert FS100 HDMI 1.4 to 3G/HD/SD SDI in real time as a way to overcome the FS100's lack of SDI connection. http://www.markertek.com/Video-Equi...verters/Atlona-Technologies/AT-HD-3GSDI.xhtml
2. Then connect that to Cinemartin's SFV (Small Form portable Video computer) 1080p60 4:2:2 recorder (to be): http://www.cinemartin.com/sfv/

There are two recorders under development: the SFVe and the SFV. The 'e' accepts HDMI but doesn't record 1080p60. The SFV doesn't accept HDMI but does record 1080p60. The Altona supposedly can handle 1080p60. The SFV is still under development and isn't cheap at estimated $5K, but if you want to do it I think this is going to be the way to get it done. Here's more on the SFV: http://nofilmschool.com/2011/03/cinemartin-release-uncompressed-444-field/
 
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wow I never heard of the SFV until now, but that one seems to have all the necessary functions if the HDMI can be converted to HDSDI
if the nanoflash is going to cost 3k, I guess 5k isn't too much more... but the external recorder is now going to cost just as much as the camera.. price seems more justified for the F3s or perhaps renting them when needed would be smarter
 
Re: 16bit vs 24bit thing.
I've worked in recording studios my entire life. That and a Metro card will get you on the subway. But one man's opinion: for dialogue where you need immediacy I could use 16bit and not look back. For music though where you need depth I would move mountains to get 24bit.
 
speedracerlo said:
wow I never heard of the SFV until now, but that one seems to have all the necessary functions if the HDMI can be converted to HDSDI
if the nanoflash is going to cost 3k, I guess 5k isn't too much more... but the external recorder is now going to cost just as much as the camera.. price seems more justified for the F3s or perhaps renting them when needed would be smarter
Click to expand...
If I were Dave Sharpton or another maker of these recorders, I'd look at making the 60 work at a better price-point. The price isn't even set in stone for the SFV so maybe they'll go after a wider segment by pricing under $2K. It's only a matter of time before the F3 features come down in price, whether Sony does it, or someone else....
 
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