Rigging the O7Q

[paulcurtis]

I'm scratching my head looking for a good way to rig the O7Q as a monitor for handheld. Until such time as there is a suitable EVF, this has to be the way to go.

I have a movcam rig, so plenty of places to mount. I've been trying a Lanparte monitor mount but it's pretty unwieldy and also the connection to the monitor doesn't seem that robust.

I've tried mini magic arms but the ones i have here are friction based and probably not quite tough enough to support the O7Q.

Must be a pretty common area for everything - how are others solving it?

cheers
Paul

 

[olof]

In my video I demo how I rig the Odyssey for shouldering using my bracket:



At about 6 min I demo on the shoulder, before that I describe the handle extension and counter weight battery system as well as my very sturdy Odyssey bracket with onboard power plate or power from the IDX/AB batts in the back.

 

[Mitch Gross]

The Odyssey7Q only weighs 1.2 lbs with 2 SSDs so I don't think you need a huge arm to support it. That said, I would suggest looking at the Manfrotto hydrostatic arms as they use hydraulic canisters instead of simple friction to hold and they are quite strong. You can also check out the various parts from Wooden Camera, which can really Erector Set you to what you need. And there's Olof's solution as well.

 

[Clermond]

ULCS clamps might be worth a look too. I use them almost for everything which has to be mounted.
You wont need a big one if you attach the 7Q at the front part of the movecam top handle.

 

[Gene Sung]

Hey Paul, here's my ultra light rig that I piece'd together. Just replace the Small HD with the 7Q. Only 9 lbs with everything. It works OK on the shoulder, but there are probably lot better shoulder mounts. But it's super light so you can shoot from the waist and it's easy to throw around. I think only about 1/4 of my handheld shots are from the shoulder so the rig is made to be more all around. Shoulder shots when done too often just screams TV News or Reality Show anyways. I used Olof's side mount battery bracket. Super light and works great.

If interested, here a little write up on it.

http://www.builtbyugene.com/blog/blog1_rigs.html

 

[paulcurtis]

Olaf, looks great but i have a movcam cage around my 700 and don't have the original 700 top handle, even so i'm going to look into a bit more detail. I like the adjustability vertically that your system seems to offer.

Mitch, yes those manfrotto arms look good. I've had issues with the friction arms and the smallHD so a little wary.

Gene, nice job but i think i need it a bit more flexible with positioning, although i'll think that one through.

I'd also shout out to Sam who's half inch rails bones system looks pretty interesting too

I'll try some of these ideas out. Hopefully today i will *finally* get the dtap power cable for the O7Q. Words to the wise - make sure you get a cable with the monitor when you buy one...

cheers
Paul

 

[morgan_moore]

Mitch, yes those manfrotto arms look good. I've had issues with the friction arms and the smallHD so a little wary.

Even if those arms work. They dont hold horizon which does my head in while operating.

S

 

[Mitch Gross]

You may also want to look into the viewfinder mounting systems made by Solid camera and by Wooden Camera. Solid's solution is more expensive but more heavy duty, with a dual clutch mechanism. Wooden's solution uses a single clutch. Both can work with monitors that have mounting points on the back or on the side, which is the case with the Odyssey7Q. They will both absolutely maintain horizon and are incredibly adjustable, and with the clutch systems the adjustments can be done on the fly with just a single hand, so great for handheld work.

 

[Stuart Keasley]

We use the following:

http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/tilta_ma-t03

It's still friction based, however the joint is toothed, so when it locks it holds position. It has no problem dealing with the weight of the Odyssey.

However for shoulder mount, I still use an EVF via HDMI, I find it easier and more comfortable and I can also get the camera data. The odyssey then sits on the rear rails, rear facing and provides a directors monitor as well as a monitor for tripod work.

 

[morgan_moore]

Irrelevant of brand I think it is worth considering the actual position of the monitor if one intends to shoulder mount for longer shots.

Simply the distance from our eye is limited by our own personal 'close focus' distance which seems to be about 12 inches but vary.

Building a rig we are trying to get the CofM over the shoulder yet still be able to focus on the monitor, while not getting it in the shot (when using a wide)

Yep it looks silly as I have a nifty fifty onboard, but Im not lying when I say my rig balances properly (and this is with Vlock and a shuttle on the back)

Most solutions seem to put the monitor in totally the wrong place.

Of course is a loupe or EVF is involved a lens changing the 'close focus' - solutions for evfs are not therefore solutions for monitors.

Monitor fore offset on my PMW F3..





Operating with the FS100, DP6 Vlock combo you can see that my cam is as balanced as a proper ENG cam..



Mitch may enjoy some details on this image:
1) Site Health and Safety required wearing issued gloves that would make the 7q touchscreen in-operable
2) My sunshade lives on the rig, making making the touch screen in-operable
3) The job is a midday, a shade is a must.

 

[Clermond]

Simply the distance from our eye is limited by our own personal 'close focus' distance which seems to be about 12 inches but vary..

this indeed an issue and presbyopia turns it to more than inconvenience. Either you cannot focus your eyes to the monitor or you use glasses but then you won't see what happening beside the monitor on your set. I make some further tests but it seems that I will look for a solution to mount an EVF additionally. Is there a mode to record with the Odyssey but turn off the screen?

 

[Gene Sung]

I think you have to define what your definition of "Handheld" is. I know for people like myself and probably Daomay, who shoot a lot of true handheld - meaning without lots of rigs, it means the camera needs to be as light and free as possible, that's why I came up with my handheld rig. It's very light, really easy to throw around for crazy angles and can be used on the shoulder for short shots. It's made for flexibility.

Seems like what most people want to build is a shoulder rig, which is not "Handheld" IMO, since it's based on the shoulder. A shoulder rig is difficult to use in the true sense of handheld because they are usually really heavy and it's a struggle to get certain angles. My director friend just got an FS700 and FilmTools sold him a Genus rig. While it's fine for shoulder work, it's definitely not handheld. He struggles with it off the shoulder because the entire rig is probably well over 20lbs.

Here's a video that's is the truest sense of "handheld," since most of it was just the camera and the stock Loupe. I would say it's about 40% Tripod and about 60% just freeform. I started off just using the camera, but towards the end I started using my super light rig. Once you start adding plates, rods, counter weights, etc.... you proportionately lose the ability to shoot real handheld. I can tell you this, there is no way I could have shot this with my friend's Genus shoulder rig, that's for sure.

 

[morgan_moore]

That is a very very pretty video - it kind of embodies the joy of simple light shooting.

But maybe more structured jobs, interviews and the like you need to hold a shot much much much longer and then the game really changes, top handle cam and gut cam start to eat the muscles.

Of course not all shoulder rigs weigh the same - Im constantly playing with titanium, carbon, and eating bits at bits of ali with my mill, I canned my matte box in exchange for a foam-core flag, all in the battle for weight savings..

Also.. back to topic - one of the reasons I love a monitor and not an EVF is that one can operate the rig in 'low mode' with the eye away from the monitor which changes the possibilities, operate on the shoulder or off it.

Also many rigs dont have Quick release of the camera which cuts the options even further..

S

 

[Mitch Gross]

this indeed an issue and presbyopia turns it to more than inconvenience. Either you cannot focus your eyes to the monitor or you use glasses but then you won't see what happening beside the monitor on your set. I make some further tests but it seems that I will look for a solution to mount an EVF additionally. Is there a mode to record with the Odyssey but turn off the screen?

If you send a RAW data signal out the SDI port of the FS700, then no menus will appear in the image even if you have it switched on for all displays. This way you can have the data up on a viewfinder connected to the camera's HDMI port while still maintaining a clean output for recording.

 

[John Foundas]

In my video I demo how I rig the Odyssey for shouldering using my bracket:

View attachment 81360

At about 6 min I demo on the shoulder, before that I describe the handle extension and counter weight battery system as well as my very sturdy Odyssey bracket with onboard power plate or power from the IDX/AB batts in the back.

"You wanna pan down?" HAHA Love it!

Nice rigging, I'll give it a look!

 

[sunnyjimfilms]

Pleasantly surprised as to how well this thing rigs. You'd think that having a great big monitor hanging off the side would unbalance it something rotten but even with SSd's in, it's perfectly manageable. My set up's probably heavier than most people would care for when using handheld, however for me, I prefer a bit of weight to aid fluidity. Also, have found that my fear of going cross-eyed when using monitor up close as replacement EVF has proved unfounded thus far!

 

[Ed Ding]

Looks nice, can you tell me which baseplate you use? I am looking for a thin one with rods and this looks like it!

 

[sunnyjimfilms]

It's a Movcam lightweight support. They do two versions, the one I'm using is for quick release plates.

 

[llirik]

Awesome, I was about to start a new topic, but perhaps better here.
Is anyone else able to supply some images of how they rigged up theirs?

I've been looking through the forums for any and all posts related to the 7Q, so that I can see some ideas that I wouldn't have thought of myself. Just picked up the 7Q, but have a few days while the fs700 gets it's upgrade, so figured I'd look into solutions.

I, too, shoot pretty light for handheld. My ideal setup so far has been the fs700 with the smallhd4 using the edelkrone monitor holder. And nothing else. I've even repositioned the mic more inward just in front of the LCD so that it's a smaller "package".


Here's an image of my current setup (without 7Q)... which I know will require extra power and some more wires, and I'm unsure of how the weight will offset it. But more importantly, unless I mount a battery onto the 7Q directly or the camera, this "quick release" setup won't work (especially with a vlock). When I need to go handheld, I simply slide off the edelkrone rod support system, so the FF, weights, etc go off the rig, and its essentially just body + smallhd.



Any and all images of setups are appreciated.

 

[Ernest Becker]

...Until such time as there is a suitable EVF,...

Have you tried the Alphatron EVF?