Rigging Advice for Indie Feature

B

bnaro

Member
I'm DPing a low budget feature next month, and this is the rig I've got going so far:

IMG_1031.jpgIMG_1030.jpg

I've done a lot of handheld work back when I primarily shot on my Canon 7D, but this time around I'll be shooting handheld on the FS100. I've used it a lot since I bought it, but almost entirely in a tripod setting (doc work). This is what I've wrangled together from my old eye spy deluxe. The Mattebox and DP4 are new. I'm hoping to make the whole thing work together, but I'm finding it difficult to make a set up that is lens-length agnostic. I love Redrock gear, but their rail mounts take up a lot of real estate.

As you see it set up there, the 35mm Rokinon 1.4 is a decently sized lens, which plays well with the set up. The same goes for my Canon 100mm Macro, and Tokina 11-16mm. My Canon 50 1.4 is just too short to get the Mattebox and follow focus together (so I guess no matte box!), and my 85mm Rokinon is cutting it close. I haven't even tried rigging my Canon 70-200mm with the matte box, because it's so large attached to this camera.

Any thoughts or tips on rigging? I will say it's pretty heavy, and I might go without the weights for a while (I hardly used them in my 7D days). I was also thinking of getting a higher riser for the camera mount, so I can bring the matte box further up—as it stands now, the matte box hangs too low to bring any further up, so it has to be close to the end of the rail, competing with the handlebar mount.
 
I'm also prepping for handholding on a drama.

The key for me... is to keep the rig short, light and simple... with the body of the camera as close to my shoulder as possible.
I also prefer keeping it short for operating on a tripod, slider or dolly.

I attach the EFV to the camera, not the rails... for weight distribution & feel... and mount a plate at the back of the rails, which snugs against my shoulder and back.
I move the EFV as far forward as possible and mount the follow focus on the right had side.

I've tried many different shoulder rests, but they all had their flaws.
I want the camera to sit low... with the eye cup parallel to my eye.
I want to be able place the camera back on the tripod in seconds without adjustment... and I want my shoulder under the camera.
I've solve this problem... with what I call the 'shoulder roll'.
The two rolls slide on the rails... I've made different sizes for different configurations.
You can see ver. 2 on my EX3... I'm making better one piece version this weekend.

When it's finished I'll post a photo of the completed rig.

Bill Kerrigan
Montreal
www.kerrigan.ca

FS100 top.jpgPix240 : EX3.jpg
 
Agreed with the EVF up top. You should try and rig it from your shotgrip handle...it works great with mine. However since you have the short handle you may have to take the wood grip off to do so, which makes me feel sad inside. #woodporn
 
gene_can_sing said:
Just out of curiosity, what advantage is there to having the EVF up on top?
Click to expand...
- the nodal point is closer to your eye, makes for easier (and more natural) roataion
- the weight of the camera and glass is closer to your shoulder making it more stable
 
That super long rig looks a bit crazy to me, why wouldn't you just move the camera back and the EVF forward and get rid of the weights to give you a rig thats half as long and half as heavy? Also I hate those redrock shoulderpads since they make it seem like you can go straight onto a tripod but on a light camera such a big shoulderpad really doesnt seem that necessary and raising the camera so high up off the tripod plate destroys your ability to counterbalance the camera on a tripod, as does having a 3ft long camera rig. Also having the camera high on your shoulder makes it a bit harder to control with the high center of gravity.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice! Here's my round two attempt:

Photo Jun 16, 10 45 30 AM.jpg

Pardon the really poor quality iPhone photo...when this thing is closer to finished, I'll break out the 5D.

kerrigan, thanks for your in-depth post! Great stuff. I'm really interested in that shoulder roll thing of yours. I'm not too happy with Redrock's shoulder mount, but...I have to work with what I've got for now. You and robmneilson are right, mounting the evf on the top handle works out much better (and there seems to be plenty of room, those rails can push forward quite a bit)!

nyvz, In terms of shortening this 'crazy' rig (:)), that's what I'd like to do, and what I think I accomplished, but some of the Redrock gear is limiting. Their baseplate isn't the greatest for tweaking, though I tried what I could (swapping the quick mount to have less clutter in front of the lens). You're right though, that previous design was a crazy big rig. I've taken off the rail connector on the shoulder mount to bring the camera down a bit more. I've reversed the direction of the base plate, too, so that the bulk of the camera sits on the shoulders. I had done this before, but I was having a really hard time fitting handles, follow focus, and the matte box all on just those rails, especially (as I noted in the post) with really short lenses, like the Canon 50mm 1.4. I still don't quite have an answer for working with them, but that's something that will have to come after I set up a working rig for the mid-sized lenses.

The weights were something I was trying out, and I think I still might use them for the 70-200, because that lens is just so, so heavy (especially with matte box, if I need it for the scene). I suppose I could just set the camera further back to compensate, but I'm not sure which will be more effective (still doing some tests).

It's also probably worth noting for those who haven't used the Redrock Mattebox before, that the matte box has to live at the end of the rails thanks to the design (dips too low). You can raise it a bit to slightly clear them, but then you'd have to get a riser for the baseplate, and I don't think it would function too well either.

Edit: here's another angle (and you can see my VHS collection!)
Photo Jun 16, 10 45 50 AM.jpg
 
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Bnaro, I own a Redrock shoulder mount... but found it adds extra weight and positions the camera too high above the shoulder... so the EVF eyepiece needs to be tilted down.

I have a film background, so when I saw a drawing of Shane Hurlbut's MCS ShoulderCam... I knew this was the type of rig I wanted.
Short, light, comfortable with back support... I want the camera to be apart of me.
But I didn't want his shoulder pad... which I think, needs to be removed when placing the camera on the tripod.

All I wanted, was something which cushioned my shoulder.

My 1st generation of shoulder rolls were made with foam pipe insulation wrapped with gaffer tape.
The 2nd were made with a small diameter pipe insulation, wrapped with a second layer of larger diameter pipe insulation... wrapped with Gorilla Tape.
My 3rd version will be a foam pool noodle, jammed on each rail, then both pieces wrapped together with Gorilla Tape... forming a single pad.

I'll post a photo soon.

Bill Kerrigan
www.kerrigan.ca

mcs-shoulder-1-00278896da.jpg
 
Agreed about the RedRock stuff. While made of good material, and machined precisely - their shouldermount is not very ergonomic. It raises the rig's CoG too high unnecessarily, and the pad is too narrow causing the camera to tilt left when you take your hand off the left handle to operate camera control...Sold away long time ago.

As you can see on the below pic, all that has been left of my RR shouldermount is... the handlebar with two grips :) Yes I do use the RR matte box and FF, but only with my EX1 with Letus and Canon glass. For the FS00 shoulder-mount setup they are just too heavy and big. I have since replaced it with the Cinecity stuff...
 

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I've just discovered...

I've just discovered...

My camera rig continues to evolve.


Shoulder rest..jpg

I've just discovered...
Someone is selling the exact shoulder pad, I was trying to make.
Except this is much more elegant.
www.halfinchrails.com

I often mount my PIX 240 on the back of the rails...
Because this pad is made in sections, it will allow me to place padding on both sides of the PIX mount.


Bill Kerrigan
Montreal
www.kerrigan.ca
 
Moldcad, totally agree about the narrowness of the RR shoulder mount...which is a bummer, because I prefer to pull focus while I operate (not that I often have a choice for an AC...but I've just really gotten used to my own glass). I'd love to move on, but like I said, budget is tight...definitely going to look into cinecity stuff later on in the year though, when stuff calms down. What is that tall looking mounting point your using in the first FS100 photo? Looks very interesting. And the shoulder pad is cinecity too? It looks really solid and stable. Depending on how cheap it is, I might be interested...oh wait, it covers up the rails though, kind of a bummer.

Kerrigan, Yes half inch rails stuff is great! I use their zip tie focus gears, which I strongly suggest if anyone isn't using them. In fact, this reminds me, I have to order more! Oh and, yes, the Hurlbut design looks really solid, but seems to be more DSLR focused. I think I might use the RR weight offset to rest on my back, similar to this design. It's not too comfy (though, some padding could change that), but it does make me feel like I'm strapped in to the rig.
 
bnaro said:
Moldcad, totally agree about the narrowness of the RR shoulder mount...which is a bummer, because I prefer to pull focus while I operate (not that I often have a choice for an AC...but I've just really gotten used to my own glass). I'd love to move on, but like I said, budget is tight...definitely going to look into cinecity stuff later on in the year though, when stuff calms down. What is that tall looking mounting point your using in the first FS100 photo? Looks very interesting. And the shoulder pad is cinecity too? It looks really solid and stable. Depending on how cheap it is, I might be interested...oh wait, it covers up the rails though, kind of a bummer.
Click to expand...

The tall-looking riser base comes from the Version 1 Letus rail system. And the pad is indeed Cinecity - it's dirt chip (less than $30). The Zacuto original being $220 :)
 
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