Resolve Raw Tag and SLOG3 CINE EI

L

LennyLevy

Veteran
I'm going to cross post this in the Sony Camera forum also since its Sony specific:

I shoot on FX9s and FX6s in Cine EI and edit in Resolve ( now its 20) using CSTs instead of LUTs. I recently discovered that the project RAW settings and the similar RAW tab on the color page can be used to set how my Slog3 exposure and color come into the color page before I've even done anything to them using the standard Resolve tools. This is confusing to me as I'm not shooting RAW.
So far I'd like to just set up the RAW setttings so they don't do anything , But I don't know if maybe I should be using them . Any advantage to processing the image through them before the normal Resolve tools? Any suggestions for how to set the RAW project settings and color page RAW tab so it doesn't do anything ?
 
LennyLevy said:
I'm going to cross post this in the Sony Camera forum also since its Sony specific:

I shoot on FX9s and FX6s in Cine EI and edit in Resolve ( now its 20) using CSTs instead of LUTs. I recently discovered that the project RAW settings and the similar RAW tab on the color page can be used to set how my Slog3 exposure and color come into the color page before I've even done anything to them using the standard Resolve tools. This is confusing to me as I'm not shooting RAW.
So far I'd like to just set up the RAW setttings so they don't do anything , But I don't know if maybe I should be using them . Any advantage to processing the image through them before the normal Resolve tools? Any suggestions for how to set the RAW project settings and color page RAW tab so it doesn't do anything ?
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If you're shooting on FX9's and FX6's in Cine EI and Slog3 in the standard codecs captured in-camera then the RAW tab is irrelevant for you working in Resolve. It doesn't do anything or affect non-raw image files coming in from those cameras.

Unless you happen to be shooting the FX9 with the XDCA-FX9 Extension Unit and a compatible external recorder to capture RAW. Or happen to be shooting the FX6 with an external recorder to capture RAW. But both of those cameras/settings actually shoot to ProRes RAW I believe, and not Sony X-OCN.

Are you shooting the FX9 and FX6 to a raw format?
 
He didn't say which codec but regardless, for raw the difference boils down to just metadata, so the short answer is it won't matter, skip the raw tab and and raw project settings and use the regular color controls. The CST can be set globally on the color management tab of the project settings , or per clip using the fx tab for CST at the top corner of the color page. Somewhere in the 1000+ pages of the reference manual it says you will end up in the same place after tweaking the metadata or the color controls, no advantage given to either side of it.
 
Thanks for responding guys. I did mention I'm not shooting RAW and though its probably irrelevant - XAVC-I . Dustin , Unfortunately I've recently learned that the RAW settings are not irrelevant to shooting ordinary Slog non RAW - they can apply whether you're aware of them or not though Tom is right - fortunately its still all metadata. . I'm still a bit confused because while I recently shot on an FX6 and the RAW tab was working , I looked at some other FX9 footage and the settings were greyed out . All shot using Cine EI . I need to shoot some more tests.

I asked this question because I now realize that if you're not aware of the RAW settings and they ARE doing something then you could get confused in Post . It can change your exposure before you've gotten to the Resolve tools. I've been shooting with Cine EI & Resolve for years without any regard to the RAW settings and its a bit of shock to see them suddenly . For now I just want RAW to leave me alone but I don't see a simple setting that says "Turn off the RAW settings" and I haven't seen a single web tutorial that even mentions these settings when explaining how to set up Resolve for ordinary SLog. . I'm not entirely sure what it means to leave it at "decode by Camera Metadata "for example. Right now I'm setting project settings to Camera Metadata only because it turns off the Project sliders. Then in the RAW tab of the Color page I'm setting it to Project because I don't think there are any project settings - In other words- "Leave me the hell alone please" . But I'm not entirely sure that's correct.
 
LennyLevy said:
Thanks for responding guys. I did mention I'm not shooting RAW and though its probably irrelevant - XAVC-I . Dustin , Unfortunately I've recently learned that the RAW settings are not irrelevant to shooting ordinary Slog non RAW - they can apply whether you're aware of them or not though Tom is right - fortunately its still all metadata. . I'm still a bit confused because while I recently shot on an FX6 and the RAW tab was working , I looked at some other FX9 footage and the settings were greyed out . All shot using Cine EI . I need to shoot some more tests.

I asked this question because I now realize that if you're not aware of the RAW settings and they ARE doing something then you could get confused in Post . It can change your exposure before you've gotten to the Resolve tools. I've been shooting with Cine EI & Resolve for years without any regard to the RAW settings and its a bit of shock to see them suddenly . For now I just want RAW to leave me alone but I don't see a simple setting that says "Turn off the RAW settings" and I haven't seen a single web tutorial that even mentions these settings when explaining how to set up Resolve for ordinary SLog. . I'm not entirely sure what it means to leave it at "decode by Camera Metadata "for example. Right now I'm setting project settings to Camera Metadata only because it turns off the Project sliders. Then in the RAW tab of the Color page I'm setting it to Project because I don't think there are any project settings - In other words- "Leave me the hell alone please" . But I'm not entirely sure that's correct.
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Thanks for that info Lenny. That's helpful context.

I probably should have added more info on my response as well, or asked a few more questions. The reality, as I think we've all come across at one time or another, is that Resolve is incredibly dense and there are probably 20 different ways to set something up that will affect the final image.

If you're of the mind to crowdsource some more info from this group then some screenshots may be helpful to see what you're running up against in different scenarios?
 
This feature did cause all sorts of confusion when it appeared in Resolve three years ago. It is also only a set of very specific formats that support the RAW controls such as it must be SLOG3/SGamut3.Cine in MXF. In my testing "Sony RAW" is not supported from in the A7Siii (even if re wrapped from MP4 to MXF), or SGamut3 (non "cine") from the FX6. FWIW, I don't use the RAW controls either, and just leave them as they are will no ill effects.
 
LennyLevy said:
I'm not entirely sure what it means to leave it at "decode by Camera Metadata "for example. Right now I'm setting project settings to Camera Metadata only because it turns off the Project sliders. Then in the RAW tab of the Color page I'm setting it to Project because I don't think there are any project settings - In other words- "Leave me the hell alone please" . But I'm not entirely sure that's correct.
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That's entirely correct. Some cameras, not all..embed certain metadatas, i.e. color temp. Changing decode from camera metadata to project lets you override. You have it understood correctly already. FWIW the answers to most Resolve questions are found in the help tab, Resolve Reference Manual.

As an aside, whether you adjust color, contrast, temp etc. through the raw tab metadata settings or through the regular color controls, in the end still boils down to adjusting the existing RGB, you can't truly change the actual temp of what's burned into the recording, whether through metadata on the front end or RGB adjustments on the back end, it's ultimately the same. I know you already knew that but just reminding.

The raw recordings from the R5 recorder attached to the F55 work just the same as raw recordings from Blackmagic BRAW or Nikon Raw N-Log, with only slight variations on the Raw pallete. Aside from the disadvantage of larger file sizes, Raw is nicer to work with and easier to decode than XAVC (especially L, (GOP) and still less of a struggle than I (intra-frame). BRAW in particular has small file sizes possible, bitrate options more efficient than prores. The Nikon raw and Sony Raw (R5,R7 recorders) are also very fast and easy to work with. I much prefer them to XAVC and prores, simpler and faster for Resolve to decode. BRAW is the easiest. The main drawback, really the only drawback you could say is you need more camera storage media onhand. Just answering some questions you didn't ask about, sorry. RAW is not really raw in the sense it was for still cameras, uncompressed. Sony 16 bit Raw R5, R7 is 3:1 compression, E-OCN more compression, BRAW is variable up to 12:1 or so, DNG on the other hand is large and unwieldly (uncompressed). Modern raw are very nice codecs. Resolve plus a nice NVIDIA GPU or Apple processor can edit and play back 8K 60 fps in real time. Practically no one is doing 8k I know, but if you tried that with one of the small, efficient recording codecs like h.264 (i.e. XAVC), or h.265, the computer will choke and puke. Off my soap box, not trying to change the world, life too short.
 
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