Researching for HD camcorder

N635DC said:
We can tell
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Awesome. I own 2 Panasonics (including a DVX), a Sony, and a Canon. I like them all. And I didn't buy a single one because of how it felt. I bought all of them for the video they produced under the circumstances required.
 
I do extreme sports, music videos, documentary, and anything experimental. I use an HPX-170 with a letus adapter. Its my favorite looking video. I use slo-mo alot. I do a lot of handheld work and its relatively lightweight. 5 yr warranty is pretty great to. Panasonic has always been responsive to any issues I've had.

The only thing that I would say is a problem is a lot of clients want a copy on tape in HD. I usually just rent another camera if they are insistent on that.

EX-1 is nice too, I just don't like the look.
 
Kugar13 said:
A few friends, and trusted DVXusers, have suggested the Panasonic HMC150 and Sony V1U camcorders, which are considerably cheaper than the Panasonic HVX200 and Sony EX-1, which are in my price range. If you get what you pay what sacrifices are being made for the cheaper HMC150 and V1U?
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With the V1U, the major sacrifices are in low light sensitivity and in the recording format (25 megabit HDV tape vs. 35-megabit solid-state). Plus no variable frame rates, and I don't think it has HD-SDI. EX1R has bigger chips, better sensitivity, it does 1080 and 720, it does variable frame rates, it has a better recording codec... but it's also $3,000 more expensive. There's a huge price gulf.

With the HMC150 vs. HVX200, that's not really the right comparison; the HVX200 is more of a special-purpose camera nowadays because of the presence of its DV tape drive. The better comparison is the HMC150 against the HPX170 -- the HPX170 is the follow-up to the HVX200. I would always recommend someone get an HPX170 instead of an HVX200A, unless they really need the standard-def tape option.

HMC150 and HPX170 are pretty much the same hardware, same lens, same chips, etc. Major differences are in the recording format (HMC150 is long-GoP 4:2:0 h.264 recording on SDHC cards, the HPX170 is intraframe 4:2:2 DVCPRO-HD recording on P2 cards). Other differences are pretty much all in the HPX170's favor -- it records standard-def as well as high-def, it does variable frame rates, it has interval/time-lapse recording, lots of small things that the HMC150 doesn't have. And the price tag, while higher, isn't THAT much higher; the HPX170 is going for about $4100 (which includes a free 16GB P2 card), and the HMC150 goes for about $3300 or so. If price is no object, definitely get the HPX170 over the HMC150, but if that $800 makes the difference, the HMC150 delivers about 85% or more of what the HPX170 does, at $800 less. The other major reason to consider the HMC150 over the HPX170 would be for long recording times; the HMC150 can record up to twelve hours on a single 32GB SDHC memory card (in its lowest-quality mode). The HPX170 can record a maximum of three hours of HD on the largest P2 card (a 64GB card).
 
Kugar13 said:
A few friends, and trusted DVXusers, have suggested the Panasonic HMC150 and Sony V1U camcorders, which are considerably cheaper than the Panasonic HVX200 and Sony EX-1, which are in my price range. If you get what you pay what sacrifices are being made for the cheaper HMC150 and V1U?
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A ton. But rather than hashing up a lot of well worn stories, you'd be well served by doing some research on the features of each model, then doing a search through the literally hundreds of threads here from owners of the HVX200, and the many from people using cams like the V1U.

There is a lot to understand about making the jump to HD, but really it comes down to needs, your budget, and what compromises you are willing to make.

My choice in HD comes down to a few factors.

1. How good is the glass and is it interchangeable if it's not good.

2. How good is the codec. And what format is it written to?

3. Does it have SDI or HDMI out so I can use an external recorder and get a better codec.

4. How good are the chips and what size are they.

5. Does it have 1920x1080 chips. If no, I'm moving on. (This cut out any of the Panasonic cameras for me)

6. What is the workflow and does it work with my NLE. I use(d) Sony Vegas and the HVX/HPX are not able to be used without purchasing additional software.

7. Does it shoot 24p... and not 24p in a 60i container

8. How are the controls. Will it do what I need in a simple manner.


You'll find that judging by these criteria, one camera or another will be weeded out very quickly. As N635DC alluded to, if CMOS is a deal breaker for you, then you've just eliminated much of Sony's offerings under $20k. And a few Panasonic's also.

If you are going to look at the HVX/HPX make sure that you understand the costs of shooting onto P2 cards. There are workarounds for the expensive Sony cards, but not so for the Panasonics. The Panasonic's carry more color information in their signal written to the cards so that may be an issue for you.

Brand loyalty means zero to me. I buy the best tool for the job at hand. Other's may feel differently, and that's cool too I guess.
 
Kugar, there has been written a zillion of entries on the topic. Just google, and you will find the truth. Several month ago I was looking for a pro handheld cam, I made my choice and I have the V1u now. All I can tell - the value of color peaking is overstated. If I were buying now, my primary criteria would be a razor-sharp hi-res viewscreen and viewfinder. The new Sonys have it. The new consumer Canons have it. The more expensive new Panasonics (HPX300) have it. Nether the 200/170/150, nor the A1/G1 nor the V1 have good screens. I don't know what is the resolution on the EX. Because if you don't have image in focus, you don't have image. So, either you have a sharp screen or you use focusing aids, and some of these aids work better than others. Panasonic's magnification is great, but it works only for the center of the screen, if you need to focus on a corner you a SOL. I say, if you can, play with real cameras and figure out can you reliably focus with them. Because if you cannot, and you have to rely on autofocus, picking a consumer HD camcorder for $500 will produce pretty much the same result.
 
I agree with CRANKY about the viewfinder on the lower numbered panasonic cameras. The resolution is not great at all. But if you know the camera you will be fine figuring out the focus. Its definitely a skill most panasonic owners have honed.
 
Kugar13 said:
I have a very difficult time not having an allegiance towards one brand or another, it appears this is common in the film community.

When I was doing reserch for my SD camcorder 6 years back everyone raved about the Panasonic DVX100, Canon XL1, and one of the Sony products (sorry, the model escapes me). I was hoping when it came to HD the line was as well defined. It appears there are more great products than ever before.
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When manufacturers compete . . . consumers win! Love the free market. :cheesy:

I recommend at least looking into the Sony HXR-NX5U. I just ordered one myself after pondering the options available, so I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it.
 
Galleddrim said:
When manufacturers compete . . . consumers win! Love the free market. :cheesy:

I recommend at least looking into the Sony HXR-NX5U. I just ordered one myself after pondering the options available, so I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it.
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That camera looks like a mini-EX1. It's a bit more pricey than I would like to see from Sony, but has all the makings of being another smash hit.
 
PerroneFord said:
That camera looks like a mini-EX1. It's a bit more pricey than I would like to see from Sony, but has all the makings of being another smash hit.
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...after they fix issues with buffer underruns and with backfocus. Gee, a sticky focus ring seems like a much lesser evil now :)
 
Cranky said:
...after they fix issues with buffer underruns and with backfocus. Gee, a sticky focus ring seems like a much lesser evil now :)
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The EX1 had some growing pains as well... A few updates, and firmware releases later, and it has to be one of the most popular handycams in history. The firmware that allowed for the use of the SDHC cards opened the floodgates.

I wonder what is on the horizon for the NX5U...
 
Cranky said:
Has Sony become Microsoft, where the third service pack is the charm?
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There were three releases of the DVX100... (no firmware) so I am not sure where you're going... At least with Sony (and Microsoft) the updates are free.

Please let's not turn this into a pointless pissing contest.
 
Kugar13 said:
I have a very difficult time not having an allegiance towards one brand or another, it appears this is common in the film community.
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No, it really isn't. Its common among the low budget film community, where owning a camera is the norm. People invest in a camera and in a brand and try to justify that camera as being the best in all situations. In the film world where rentals are the norm most people will have preferences for different cameras in different situations.
 
starshine video said:
no, it really isn't. Its common among the low budget film community, where owning a camera is the norm. People invest in a camera and in a brand and try to justify that camera as being the best in all situations. In the film world where rentals are the norm most people will have preferences for different cameras in different situations.
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inconceivable!
 
Wow

Wow

I must say... you guys are brilliant! It blows my mind how much you know. I am passionate about film making and had to adopt the role of DP long ago out of necessity, only to discover a love for it. Unfortunately I'm nowhere near as experienced as you guys clearly are, but thanks to your patience, advice, and years of experience I've grown over the years, read these posts and asking questions.

Would you guys suggest any good reading material for someone interested in learning more about HD? When I got my DVX I purchased Barry's book, bravo sir! Once I decide on a camcorder I hope you have a book available for that one as well.

Thanks again guys. I don't know what I would do without your help and support.
 
Kugar13 said:
Would you guys suggest any good reading material for someone interested in learning more about HD? When I got my DVX I purchased Barry's book, bravo sir! Once I decide on a camcorder I hope you have a book available for that one as well.
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Barry does have a book available on the HMC150, I know. So if you're looking for a camera with a Barry companion book, I'd say that's the way to go.

http://www.amazon.com/HMC150-Book-Barry-W-Green/dp/B002LL3VEI/
 
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