F55: Replicating CineEI mode in Custom Mode… S-Gamut3 included. ;)

starcentral said:
I see. It's done with metadata by your definition. ie. you adjust a slider and it's happening right in front of your eyes type of thing. No re-rendering required, etc..



Guys my theory on RAW baking in one of the three presets might be wrong then. It barely makes sense. Surely Sony has just chosen some baseline color temperature (native to the sensor I would think) and then everything is just adjusted in post as "metadata".

As James points out, if anything its a routing / hardware / 'oops we didn't think of it in advance' issue.
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The alternative you put forward there would be a lot of Raw cameras deal with it, I believe.
 
On Red, I used to take a test shot and quickly put it through Redcine on the laptop to have the confidence of a Director before we proceed. Now I could save that preset to the camera if time permitted and all the raw clips shot afterwards would be accompanied by an RMD metadata sidecar file that defaulted the look to my grade but was non destructive.

And Sam, in a non corporate environment I mix colour temperatures all the time wherever possible for creative effect. To have everything tungsten or daylight balanced would bore me to tears after a while.
 
Ben Scott said:
And Sam, in a non corporate environment I mix colour temperatures all the time wherever possible for creative effect. To have everything tungsten or daylight balanced would bore me to tears after a while.
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Indeed but I shoot this mix at 5500k - I love my key to be pure daylight and some tungstens in the background - but I shoot like that at 55 (or sometimes 45) - a Ctemp(s) already fully supported by EI mode and LUTs

Thats what I find odd - basically my cam lives on 55 and twice a month gets put on 32 in my studio when we black it out and go pure tungsten. I very rarely need wbalance - only on horrid corporates (use custom mode!) and one drama scene I can think of which was an office scene that was green.

S
 
I couldn't give you precise temps but sometimes I want something to look warm and golden and sometimes I want something to look OTT cold.

It's pretty clear there's more than one way to skin a cat on set AND in post :)
 
Im with you on 'golden' and also 'morgue cold' but would you not build luts for those. Thinking on my nikon I have 6000 set normall to add a little warmth on set.

S
 
No. I'd capture as close as I can - especially if other people are involved and the answers aren't tied up in raw and in my head - and then tweak in post.

One of the best bits of advice I was given ages ago when asking someone about grading 'what's the best way to achieve these things more green and these things more blue in the shot?' was 'shoot green and blue things'.
 
Not necessarily. I like how you have already decided how to light and colour balance my imaginary scene with no more info than there a blue thing and a green thing in it, even down to deciding on a white balance. :)

But yep I'll shush in this thread now.
 
It's clear to me, we need a new camera mode 'CineEI Light', enabling both noise reduction and expanded WB. Just be prepared to see lots of dodgy skin tone on Vimeo where people have blown their Red channel.
 
This is all available in Custom - which needs Luts added - and then you would have all you want?

It just seems simpler to me to add LUTs to custom than turn EI into Custom.

And it seems safer because in EI I gain great confidence in that one is not shooting with a tint swing, NR or sharpening accidentally engaged which which could stuff you up.

S
 
Well so am I - but I do need LUTs in custom because I leave EI a lot to add NR if I am shooting above 2000ISO

IMO the camera is best up to 2000 with no NR and it needs engaging above 2000.

It seems more elegant to just switch modes to achieve this, and also safer because then you wont use NR by a mistake.. and you get six gain/ISOs on the side switch.

Of course one could configure NR to activate M at 2500 and H at 8000 that would be even better.

Simply my use of the camera is thus..
Is it dark or are we in a tinty place? use Custom.
Else use EI.
My little brain can handle that.. but I dont get luts - which I have just given up on because they are not there on HFR, lose the WFM etc. Again my little brain does not like getting LUTs half of the time so for now I basically pretend they dont exist.. because for me and my little brain it is simpler to pretend they don't exist until they work 100% properly. Just like I pretend 180FPS does not exist because the engagement from pal and 24p post route does not work nicely.

S
 
My brain is even smaller Sam. I'm pretty much shooting everything at ISO2000. No LUT, just WFM. Agree about switching to custom mode when it's dark. Fortunately I rarely have had to do this as some of my lenses are f/1.2:-)

Proper LUTs would be great, but this half-cocked implementation is bollocks.
 
I'm just the other way. I like to shoot with all in Cine EI and a monitor LUT at the EVF. I find it to be easy and I see exactly how it'll look in post. ISO800 for low light, ISO1600 as my default and ISO3200 outdoors and when it's sunny. I also look at the white balance options to be 5500k for outdoors and when using my fluo lights, 3200k indoors with only tungsten lights and 4300k in mixed environments.

I like to have few options to select from when shooting.
 
Worth pointing out, even though I've written it many times on this forum, it's not ISO800 or ISO1600 or ISO 3200, it's always ISO2000. EI and ISO are different things. Related but different. Agree, good external monitoring is essential.
 
The thing is here that none of us are professional designers of GUI.

I think we all just want elegance and simplicity - there are probably many routes to that.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
This is all available in Custom - which needs Luts added - and then you would have all you want?
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No its not all the same as custom mode because you do not have access to slog3 and the newer S.Gamut3 color spaces. In custom mode you are stuck with some unknown gamut and the only normalizing LUT that exists for it from Sony is only available in slog2 not slog3.

It's a rubix cube, really.

The only way I was able to get S.Gamut3 and S.Gamut3.cine in my custom mode is because the F55 offers 2 presets under matrix but they are not absolutely perfect, and they are not available on the FS7 or F5.
 
And that is actually the core of this thread.

The differences between - EI and Custom (given all other settings equalised)

First we need them equalised, then we need luts, then IMO we are sorted!

So do those differences matter in the real world?

Im not sure right now but Custom/Slog3/LC709 is certainly way nicer than any video settings Ive ever used.

S
 
Liam Hall said:
My brain is even smaller Sam. I'm pretty much shooting everything at ISO2000. No LUT, just WFM. Agree about switching to custom mode when it's dark. Fortunately I rarely have had to do this as some of my lenses are f/1.2:-)

Proper LUTs would be great, but this half-cocked implementation is bollocks.
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I did a shoot on Friday where I had the VF set to the LC709a LUT and my 7Q on SDI 1 was set to no LUT. Worked out nice as I could see the baked image on the VF and the 7Q had the S-Log image with the proper waveform / histo. Good combo. I have the 7Q mounted solidly to a Wooden camera nato handle and I can use a single Swit BPU60 to power both the 7Q and the FS7, so this would work well in Run and gun since the 7Q is only 1.2 lbs.

The only issue I ran into (which is bad since I was using the 7Q as backup recorder) was when I hit the S&Q button and switched to 60fps, the 7Q would switch from S-Log to the LUT image, thus burring the LUT into the 60fps image. When I switched back to 24fps, everything was fine. Damn bugs.
 
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