FS7: Replacement EVF and/or Recorder

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digitalinnovations

Well-known member
So I'm considering getting either a replacement EVF or external monitor and/or recorder.

Are there any options out there to straight-up replace the EVF? Something that will make it easier to check / pull focus is my main objective. If this new EVF/monitor had its own on-board LUTs and exposure tools that would be great but not a must - I know I could send out a LUT to the monitor from within the FS7 but I really want to avoid that because, heaven forbid, I accidentally bake it in to my footage one time. But main issue is the included EVF on the FS7 is kinda garbage - especially when shooting log - but that's just my opinion. So are the options and how do you mount them up in a clean fashion (similar to the way the included EVF is)? It would be nice if there was a removable eyepiece but if I had to choose between the two I would prefer the flat monitor because I don't shoot handheld that often and hopefully this new monitor would be brighter and more easier to see even in daylight without the eyepiece.

That brings me to the second part of my question: since there may not be a huge price jump (or any at all) should I consider a monitor that is also a recorder? Is there any quality benefit to recording to ProRes from the HDMI out? Did we ever discern if it is 422 10bit from the HDMI or not? I would probably never invest in the XDCA and I think without it the SDI are only 1080 - am I right in thinking that way? So if the HDMI out is equal to or greater than the onboard XAVC-I then I would use it. Otherwise, I wouldn't.

Thanks everyone. I'm excited to see your solutions.
 
As far as I know there is no direct replacement for the VF - as in - no third party solution that uses the same cable the VF uses to get power/picture. You are going to need to send a LUT from the fs7 to whatever third party solution you use. But it's not hard to set it up so you don't bake in the LUT, and you can add to the user menu so verifying is only two or three button presses away.

I've seen lots of great things from the zacuto gratical eye and gratical HD, but they require their own power source. The Gratical eye not having a place for a battery, needs to be powered by a d tap battery source, or with a cable connecting it to the XDCA LEMO connector. The gratical HD can be powered by canon batteries.


In terms of a recorder, I have worked with odyssey 7q+, as well as pix e7 (though I'd probably opt for the e5 for size if i was purchasing).

I think recording to internal cards is the way to go, less fiddley, but that's just me. Good luck on your search.
 
Zacuto Eye. It's awesome luts waveform you can actually read great peaking false colors everything you need in a small robust package it is also extremely fog resistant.
 
Wes. said:
As far as I know there is no direct replacement for the VF - as in - no third party solution that uses the same cable the VF uses to get power/picture.
Click to expand...

I figured as much but I'm fine with using the HDMI or SDI out.

Wes. said:
You are going to need to send a LUT from the fs7 to whatever third party solution you use.
Click to expand...

Couldn't I just use the on-board LUTs in whatever monitor / EVF (if that's a feature they have of course)? Otherwise that would be redundant for monitors that have on-board LUTs?

Wes. said:
I've seen lots of great things from the zacuto gratical eye and gratical HD...
Click to expand...

Those do look good but if I have to choose then I'd have to opt for like a 5" monitor over a strictly EVF form-factor. It just works better for MY type of shooting. I just didn't know if there were any solutions that had a clip-on / removable eyepiece like the included Sony - that is a pretty handy feature...shame the actual monitor is garbage.

How is the picture quality on the Pix E7 panel? Although, like you said, I'd probably go with the 5" just for keeping the overall size of my rig down.

I'd like a monitor that has a good panel and is bright enough to use outdoors.
 
digitalinnovations said:
I figured as much but I'm fine with using the HDMI or SDI out.
Couldn't I just use the on-board LUTs in whatever monitor / EVF (if that's a feature they have of course)? Otherwise that would be redundant for monitors that have on-board LUTs?
Those do look good but if I have to choose then I'd have to opt for like a 5" monitor over a strictly EVF form-factor. It just works better for MY type of shooting. I just didn't know if there were any solutions that had a clip-on / removable eyepiece like the included Sony - that is a pretty handy feature...shame the actual monitor is garbage.
How is the picture quality on the Pix E7 panel? Although, like you said, I'd probably go with the 5" just for keeping the overall size of my rig down.
I'd like a monitor that has a good panel and is bright enough to use outdoors.
Click to expand...

Oh duh, my mistake! Yes you are correct. If the third party solution has it's own LUTS then yes, you are correct.

The Pix felt like a really nice monitor, It was only really used on one shoot and I don't think I could accurately comment on it's image - I can say I don't remember being let down by it however.
 
That's good to hear. It seems like the Sound Devices gear has a ton of positive reviews and user experiences on the audio side but i wasn't sure how they did on the video side of things. Based off what I can see, it appears the Pix-E series are built very well - unlike some of the more plastic-y construction of other manufacturers. I do tend to take care of my gear regardless but something solid just feels better, you know?
 
Here's my 2 cents.

I bought the Zacuto Z-Finder Flip up for the FS7 and it's much better than the stock Loupe. The default FS7 Peaking settings are very weak. If you crank it up to 100, it's very easy to find focus using the FS7 LCD with a loupe.

There are big disadvantages to 3rd party EVFs like the Gratical.
1) It takes an extra battery / power source and takes up an extra SDI port. This is very inconvenient compared to just plugging in the stock LCD. The battery thing can be a pain because then it also requires bringing an extra charger as well.
2) What if you're in a weird angle which is very often for me. The Gratical is useless in those cases. For me, a Loupe / flip up is crucial for flexibility.

One kind of good compromise I've used was the 502 with Sidefinder. It actually works pretty good. Great screen and the EVF part is pretty good as well and you can flip out to an LCD when needed. The disadvantage is that it's big and heavy compared to the FS7 EVF / Loupe and it takes an extra battery and SDI port.

Good luck!
 
I'd probably have to go with the monitor then. But are there any options that do not have the recorder function that offer as good or better screen / picture quality? If I can save money by buying a monitor that doesn't have the recorder functionality then I'd probably go that route - especially if the HDMI doesn't output true 10bit 422.
 
Small HD 502 is probably your best bet for small monitor that isn't recorder. It cross converts HDMI and SDI, and passes through both as well.

One downside to the PIX recorder is that it gets hot, noticeably hot.

Cool part about not using the stock VF as a VF, is that you can still leave it on your camera for a small on board monitor - think, gratical as VF, stock LCD as monitor or even producer monitor if they're next to you. If not doing a shoot with wireless video I like to have an option on my camera so that the producer can see my shots (for my line of work atleast)


With all of that said, I still use the stock VF as a VF, even though i tend to mostly shoot with the loupe flipped up if possible.
 
Wes. said:
Small HD 502 is probably your best bet for small monitor that isn't recorder. It cross converts HDMI and SDI, and passes through both as well. .
Click to expand...


I used it for some months as viewfinder but went back to the original

- peaking and zebra on/off is fiddly on the 502 with the mini knob
- same with magnifier
- if you use peaking of the 502 it peaks all menues of the camera, that drove me crazy
- if you use camera peaking you can't turn it of at the viewfinder quickly
- if you use d-tap power from the camera battery and switch the camera off the 502 turns off too. If you switch the camera you have to switch the 502 on separately and flip through the sceens to yours setting.
- if you turn "display" at the camera off you don't see the record LED in the viewfinder.

I use the 502 on the Ronin, or when I don't have access to the display in narrow spaces.
It's great but as a viewfinder it's neither fish nor fowl
 
Why is the stock EVF such garbage in your opinion and why do you say that it's "especially when shooting LOG" ? I've been using the Sony EVF all the time with FS7 and can't see anything bad with it. When shooting LOG you can set LUT for just the EVF. In HFR you can't but peaking helps in this situation. The loop is flimsy indeed and a bit long but that and lack of a dedicated REC light are about my only complaints I have about it.
 
Gene,
I'm very interested in what you said about the Zacuto Loupe for the FS7 - mainly that you're getting a bigger sharper picture and that its physically shorter. I've never had any trouble with my Sony Loupe falling off though I've heard people complain often. Do they put it on upside down or what- maybe I'm just lucky.

Anyway I have a few questions.
1- Is it bigger only because you have stronger diopters? I already replaced my stock diopter with a +4 52mm diopter available anywhere cheap and that helped but it wasn't an overwhelming change and only cost me $10.

2- On B&H someone complains that the magnification is too great so he has to peer around to see the whole frame. Do you experience this?

3- Another complaint was that it wasn't easy to pass the camera to another person because they couldn't adjust the diopter easily.
I found that confusing . Doesn't it have a normal ring to adjust the focus to your eye after you've chosen your diopter strength?

4- Along the lines of question #3. I could never get a sharp image form the Zacuto viewfinder on a 5D. Don't know why. Maybe I was too picky and the resolution just sucked on the back of the 5D anyway. Or it had something to do with the diopter system. I wear progressive lens glasses and wondered if for some reason there was a misfit - maybe the diopter was too big ? At NAB they tried everything to make it work and it never felt right, so I'm wondering if this is the same optical system.

I guess I can always try it from B&H and send it back if it doesn't work. $400 is a lot for a loupe but if it significantly improves focus then I'm in.

Thanks,

Lenny
 
LennyLevy said:
Gene,
I'm very interested in what you said about the Zacuto Loupe for the FS7 - mainly that you're getting a bigger sharper picture and that its physically shorter. I've never had any trouble with my Sony Loupe falling off though I've heard people complain often. Do they put it on upside down or what- maybe I'm just lucky.

Anyway I have a few questions.
1- Is it bigger only because you have stronger diopters? I already replaced my stock diopter with a +4 52mm diopter available anywhere cheap and that helped but it wasn't an overwhelming change and only cost me $10.

2- On B&H someone complains that the magnification is too great so he has to peer around to see the whole frame. Do you experience this?

3- Another complaint was that it wasn't easy to pass the camera to another person because they couldn't adjust the diopter easily.
I found that confusing . Doesn't it have a normal ring to adjust the focus to your eye after you've chosen your diopter strength?

4- Along the lines of question #3. I could never get a sharp image form the Zacuto viewfinder on a 5D. Don't know why. Maybe I was too picky and the resolution just sucked on the back of the 5D anyway. Or it had something to do with the diopter system. I wear progressive lens glasses and wondered if for some reason there was a misfit - maybe the diopter was too big ? At NAB they tried everything to make it work and it never felt right, so I'm wondering if this is the same optical system.

I guess I can always try it from B&H and send it back if it doesn't work. $400 is a lot for a loupe but if it significantly improves focus then I'm in.

Thanks,

Lenny
Click to expand...

Hi Lenny, maybe I can offer some advice here

3. There is no "normal diopter ring" like you're used to. it's a fixed diopter, that you can change out for different magnifications, but one at a time only. Thus, hard to hand off to other people.
 
Clermond said:
I used it for some months as viewfinder but went back to the original

- peaking and zebra on/off is fiddly on the 502 with the mini knob
- same with magnifier
- if you use peaking of the 502 it peaks all menues of the camera, that drove me crazy
- if you use camera peaking you can't turn it of at the viewfinder quickly
- if you use d-tap power from the camera battery and switch the camera off the 502 turns off too. If you switch the camera you have to switch the 502 on separately and flip through the sceens to yours setting.
- if you turn "display" at the camera off you don't see the record LED in the viewfinder.

I use the 502 on the Ronin, or when I don't have access to the display in narrow spaces.
It's great but as a viewfinder it's neither fish nor fowl
Click to expand...

Great insights. Thanks for sharing. In the OEM viewfinder loupe, you turn the display off and the REC light turns off as well. It's the single most frustrating thing about my fs7. I typically shoot with the display off and pop it back on once in a while to double check, but then turn it back off. I find myself glancing at the front rec light of the camera more often than not. Such an easy simple dumb thing to neglect. Ugh.
 
So it doesn't focus at all? That sounds nuts to me, how much engineering would it take to have that ring move in and out a bit. Maybe that's why I could never get them to focus correctly for me.
Is it just the diopter strength that makes the VF better. If so that ain't worth $400.
 
Wes. said:
Great insights. Thanks for sharing. In the OEM viewfinder loupe, you turn the display off and the REC light turns off as well. It's the single most frustrating thing about my fs7. I typically shoot with the display off and pop it back on once in a while to double check, but then turn it back off. I find myself glancing at the front rec light of the camera more often than not. Such an easy simple dumb thing to neglect. Ugh.
Click to expand...

Welcome. I often have display on all the time. Sometimes for critical framing I turn it off but first I check waveforms and if REC LED is on.
 
I think the stock Evf is flawed because the cable is too short to find a position where the camrra is balanced on the shoulder.

I have a 502 which I love/hate. It has a deep home made hood and I also modded it to take 12v in.

The electronics are awesome luts rgb wfm - how does anyone choose thier wb setting without the ability to evaluate rgb via Wfm or histo?

The elcronics are so good they give you a functioning fs7 - repairing most of the flaws in the camera like no luts in hfr

The thing is a bit weak and I bust te Sdi in - lucky I can now use the hdmi - a good vote for any system having a double cabling system.
So well worth considering.

I'd still prefer a true Evf for some jobs where I can really use the physical connection to the face to add stability and completely exclude sun/reflections

I'd also check the zacuto "golf ball" and the transvideo starlight

For a cheap Evf what about the one from the bm ursa?

--
I would always keep the stock monotor with the camera - ive known two operators manage to disable thier other monitors and having left the stock monitor at home I had to talk them throu the menu blind to get thier picture back!
"Down down click down down click"
 
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