Renting HVx200 and XLH1 same day: Any suggestions?

[Barry_Green]

I had a 100A, not a 100B, and I haven't played with the "B" version at all. I'm assuming noise performance didn't drop from the older to the newer generation, which would mean you'd rate the HVX as better than the 100A as far as noise is concerned?

Yes. But there's not a night-and-day difference from the 100A to 100B, so it's not that big of a deal. The 100B is improved over the 100A, and the HVX appears to match the 100B performance.

To be honest, that's not the impression I've gotten from the footage I've seen, but I would be pleasantly surprised if that turns out to be the case.

I'm basing it off of pointing the 100B and the HVX at the exact same scene, setting 'em on the same settings, and then magnifying the monitor in DV Rack to extreme magnification so I can practically COUNT the noise granules. I posted the gray chip charts, which came from me running that test. I've done it a few other ways, and from what I'm seeing, they are the same. I haven't put them side-by-side in a production scenario yet, but from lab testing I would be shocked if anyone could pick one from the other based solely on noise.

Of course, we don't know what settings they used, but that's been the excuse for seemingly every bit of footage we get our hands on.

Well, that's true; but again, I would say that the very, very first shots posted from the DVX weren't all that impressive. Heck, I was one of the first guys who posted footage from the DVX back in 2002, from the WEVA convention floor in August. I shot some convention floor stuff, and a train going around the tracks, and posted it. And it looked like horrific crap. Because it was lame trade show footage.

Since then, um, things have gotten a little better! Guys like Evin Grant and Bob Gundu and Neil Rowe and Patryk Rebisz and Rich Lee got ahold of the DVX and showed what it could do. But the camera didn't change at all -- people just learned how to use it, and people who knew what they were doing got ahold of it.

So where we're at now, in terms of the HVX, is we're seeing convention-floor train-around-the-tracks footage. Even the stuff that Jarred and Evin and Jay and I shot, we barely had any experience with the camera. It can be even better still.

Unless something gets posted that looks phenomenal, it's hard to really feel secure about going "full throttle" with the HVX without being able to test it first.

I would always caution someone to test first. But having spent a lengthy amount of time with it now, and feeling like I know it pretty well now, I can say from my own perspective that I've got no qualms going "full throttle".

 

[Kholi]

Kholi,

I don't think you can marginalize the format/codec, which it seems you'll be doing if you don't test out the HVX. 4:2:2 with uncompressed audio is hard to walk past, very hard. And have you seen Barry's dvcpro50 footage??? The difference is huge. Forget resolution for a moment, the color sampling alone makes you want to look at this camera and there is no other camera that can do it at reasonable cost.

OH.. Trust me, Matt... the DVCpro50 option makes me lean toward the HVX200 almost instantly.

Now, I do know you can manage capturing through the SDI feature with the Canon, and don't get me wrong-- we can afford that if they want to go with this camera. But, I think having an IN CAMERA solution for excellent DV is just great. I just don't know HOW to do that and I'm willing to bet the current solution isn't as flexible as we'd like it to be.

The sad thing is, I'm the one doing all the work and organizing the camera test, and I know the least about them out of all of us. I'm just glad that they'll be here to beat both cameras to death. That means lighting tests under professional/studio lighting, motion tests, everything; it's going to be fun.

Just called Birns and Sawyer... HVX200 won't be back until monday. =(

I'll keep trying everywhere else and maybe I'll get lucky.

 

[Barry_Green]

Kholi, check your PM's.

 

[MattC]

Now, I do know you can manage capturing through the SDI feature with the Canon, and don't get me wrong-- we can afford that if they want to go with this camera.

Yeah, but why would you??? If i were spending that much money, I'd get the SDX or the SPX and just uprez the footage. I'd love to see a comparison between the 2/3" camera uprezzed and the Canon or the HVX shot in DVCProHD. I think I'd still rather shoot with the larger chips, but I don't really know, I do know I'd try to test the comparison....

In any case, if you go with the Canon, and just record SDI to DVCProHD well, why? If you record uncompressed SDI footage out of the Canon sure that's fantastic, but buy the time you add up the cost of doing that (storage) you could be looking at a Varicam...

Matt

 

[evinsky]

Yeah, but why would you??? If i were spending that much money, I'd get the SDX or the SPX and just uprez the footage. I'd love to see a comparison between the 2/3" camera uprezzed and the Canon or the HVX shot in DVCProHD. I think I'd still rather shoot with the larger chips, but I don't really know, I do know I'd try to test the comparison....

I think the SDX/SPX is a great camera and I have shot with it extensively, but it is not a high definition image and both the HVX and H1 are, whatever the other limitations are you can imedieately see the difference in detail between the 1/3" HDs and the 2/3" SDs. If your final product is HD, don't sell yourself short.

 

[Kholi]

Yeah, but why would you??? If i were spending that much money, I'd get the SDX or the SPX and just uprez the footage. I'd love to see a comparison between the 2/3" camera uprezzed and the Canon or the HVX shot in DVCProHD. I think I'd still rather shoot with the larger chips, but I don't really know, I do know I'd try to test the comparison....

In any case, if you go with the Canon, and just record SDI to DVCProHD well, why? If you record uncompressed SDI footage out of the Canon sure that's fantastic, but buy the time you add up the cost of doing that (storage) you could be looking at a Varicam...

Matt

Good points, Matt. Very valid.

I think the fact that the budget the company works on and the real Indie budget is a bit different. If the Canon, hypothetically speaking, were to become our choice of camera (based as much on image as it would be workflow and how it fits into our own speed), we'd be buying the proper equipment for them as well; and it wouldn't be an issue at all.

Though, I really wish these firestore solutions would come to light like yesterday.

 

[Kholi]

On the topic of workflow:

The HVX and the XLH1 aren't too friendly at the moment, and I think that a few people would agree with me.

P2 sounds nice, but to get good workflow going, you need two four gig cards. EVS can't rent out more than one PER HVX rental, so that should tell you what the p2 situation's looking like for those of us who want to use it right now.

And HDV?? Well... from what I've been reading, 24f + FCP = No no. Between AVid and FCP, which I'd be using, I think there'd be no support. Does that mean I'd be pretty much forced to shoot Canon DV (compared to DVCpro50... uhm, no.) or use the SDI features.

I couldn't imagine trying to test more than one camera by myself, honestly.

Hate to say this, and I'm not biased at all, but the HVX200 would be my pick if I had to just get a camera and shoot. I wouldn't go any further into testing, personally.

But, I have the ability to do so without shelling out much more than effort, so I'm going to do it if I can.

 

[mgalvan]

Hey Kholi ... check out some of the Canon HDV converted to DV100 for editing in Final Cut Pro in the other threads. It looks very very good and could be a good workaround till FCP gets native 24F support.