Remote follow focus for £150/$300
- Thread starter hoarp001
- Start date
Joseph Stunzi
Veteran
I'd be curious if Redrock's costs $1k or not. It's features seemed to be jam packed as well. You're in New York djgvinny... you could easily rent this thing out for $100-200 a day and pay for it man.
I see a lost opportunity here to make a lot of sales. This remote focus shouldn't be the same price as the viewfactor model. That model wins hands down for features alone. It doesn't seem to be restricted by just slr lenses. It can be operated both wired and wirelessly. The remote controller also acts as a record button for your red camera. The controller can be used to control 3 of their motors for iris, focus and zoom. It has a geniusly simple automatic calibrater that sets the end stops for you. It uses cheap replaceable 9v batterys in the controller. Reversible motor direction for Nikon lenses. Plus a bunch of other features over the Hocus Focus. The Hocus Focus will dominate the market if the pricing wasn't so ambitious.
emretufekci
Well-known member
Sorry to throw rocks at redrock but I doubt they are actively pursuing a RFF system. The place holder on their web page has been up for years, with no updates.
Also a Bartech rents out for $100-$150 max. The rental for the Hofo should be around $75 a day maximum. Which makes it even more affordable for anybody.
just my 2c.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Yeah the RedRock WFF has been vaporware forever. Their history of timely new product introductions hasn't exactly been exemplary otherwise either *cough* mattebox *cough.
Regarding pricing, I thought Peter had mentioned that a considerably lower price might be available at some later point directly from him. I wonder if that's still in the cards...
Regarding pricing, I thought Peter had mentioned that a considerably lower price might be available at some later point directly from him. I wonder if that's still in the cards...
Joseph Stunzi
Veteran
With respect to Redrock, I know it's in the works... certainly not vaporware.... just no ETA in sight.
Regarding the Viewfactor price... $2699... vs the HoFo price of $1900 or so is significant.
Viewfactors model is nice... but with regards to multiple motors... it's not as seemless as you'd expect. The remote can switch between the motors.. but when you do... the motors jump to the position of the previous motor you were controlling... so basically it's a single motor controller that has switchability.
If you're looking for a $500 wireless follow focus go make one... single-run CNC milling is not cheap... laser engraving... circuit board construction... all of that is a lot of work... and it'd be better if you all supported a fellow DVXuser than bashed the results of his labors on all of our behalf.
Regarding the Viewfactor price... $2699... vs the HoFo price of $1900 or so is significant.
Viewfactors model is nice... but with regards to multiple motors... it's not as seemless as you'd expect. The remote can switch between the motors.. but when you do... the motors jump to the position of the previous motor you were controlling... so basically it's a single motor controller that has switchability.
If you're looking for a $500 wireless follow focus go make one... single-run CNC milling is not cheap... laser engraving... circuit board construction... all of that is a lot of work... and it'd be better if you all supported a fellow DVXuser than bashed the results of his labors on all of our behalf.
Ho fo
Ho fo
If you bother to read the posts Peter has made, he has told you, HIS price will be lower than the distributor who bought his product. He has told you to disregard any rumours about price. Sheesh.... what do you want from the guy? BLOOD!!!!
Ho fo
If you bother to read the posts Peter has made, he has told you, HIS price will be lower than the distributor who bought his product. He has told you to disregard any rumours about price. Sheesh.... what do you want from the guy? BLOOD!!!!
hoarp001
Veteran
Syncman is right, we will be selling for a lower price.
So, your list of things the viewfactor does that the HF dosnt.
- It doesn't seem to be restricted by just slr lenses.
This is true, but the cost of cine lenses is much higher than SLR lenses. I designed my system with SLR lenses in mind, which DRAMATICALLY reduced development time and cost. It is intended entirely for 35mm adapter users. If I wanted to make a follow focus for cine lenses, thats what I would have done, but would have priced a lot of people out in doing so. I aimed to make a system for 35mm adapters, broadcast and DSLR, and I have.
- It can be operated both wired and wirelessly.
This really is redundant. Using modern radio technology is just as secure and trouble free as using a wire. More so in fact, you dont have to trip on a wire or deal with the weight on a steadicam rig. If anything, I would consider a wired option a disadvantage for the HoFo, as it would mean more connectors (these add costs, construction time and another possible point of faliure) and it requries more internal components and more code. This adds to the cost. I trust the HoFos wireless link enough, and I do not belive it needs a wireless backup. If the viewfactor does need a wireless backup. Well you know.
- The remote controller also acts as a record button for your red camera.
Again this is an option that only applies to red camera owners, and I dont expect many red camera owners to buy HoFos, simply because the lenses they are using do not fall under the HoFos capabilities. As mentioned time and time again, it is designed for SLR and Broadcast lenses only. If you Have a RED camera, and need the run start stop, then the Viewfactor is a good option, as it is designed for the RED. The HF is desigined for 35mm adapters and similar.
- The controller can be used to control 3 of their motors for iris, focus and zoom.
Again, same answer as before. This is rearely required for SLR lenses, and the newer ones dont have iris rings anyway. It is called the Hocus Focus, for this very reason, its not a Hocus Focus-iris-zoom. Adding more buttons would add more to the cost.
- It has a geniusly simple automatic calibrater that sets the end stops for you.
This feature is useless against the newer DSLR lenses that have an infinatly rotatable focus rings. The viewfactor would be unuseable on these lenses, whereas the hofo is not.
- It uses cheap replaceable 9v batterys in the controller.
So does the HoFo. (10 hours battery life)
- Reversible motor direction for Nikon lenses.
So does the HoFo.
- The Hocus Focus will dominate the market if the pricing wasn't so ambitious.
Give us a few weeks and it wont be ambitious.
The Foveas seems to have dissapeared. The site has been gone for a while now.
I think if you knew the work it has taken to get the HoFo to the level it is now, you would understand why it costs more than you would like. This thing is built like a tank. I would be willing to say it is built better than the Viewfactor. Everything is machined from solid billet aluminium, no moulding or corners cut. It is rolls royce engineering and it will last. I would rather sell you a product that in 10 years will still be working, than fobb you off on a cheap plastic version that breaks easily for the sake of a few quid.
If I made a cheapo-focus and it broke on a film shoot as a result, you would be angry. The HF wont do this, and I personaly belive this reliability and peace of mind is worth every penny.
Have a look at this video, and you will see the effort and technology that goes into its construction. I would also estimate that each HoFo takes about six hours of manual screwing and soldering to complete, all undertaken by me, I do not employ anyone else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q6S-ONq53M
So, your list of things the viewfactor does that the HF dosnt.
- It doesn't seem to be restricted by just slr lenses.
This is true, but the cost of cine lenses is much higher than SLR lenses. I designed my system with SLR lenses in mind, which DRAMATICALLY reduced development time and cost. It is intended entirely for 35mm adapter users. If I wanted to make a follow focus for cine lenses, thats what I would have done, but would have priced a lot of people out in doing so. I aimed to make a system for 35mm adapters, broadcast and DSLR, and I have.
- It can be operated both wired and wirelessly.
This really is redundant. Using modern radio technology is just as secure and trouble free as using a wire. More so in fact, you dont have to trip on a wire or deal with the weight on a steadicam rig. If anything, I would consider a wired option a disadvantage for the HoFo, as it would mean more connectors (these add costs, construction time and another possible point of faliure) and it requries more internal components and more code. This adds to the cost. I trust the HoFos wireless link enough, and I do not belive it needs a wireless backup. If the viewfactor does need a wireless backup. Well you know.
- The remote controller also acts as a record button for your red camera.
Again this is an option that only applies to red camera owners, and I dont expect many red camera owners to buy HoFos, simply because the lenses they are using do not fall under the HoFos capabilities. As mentioned time and time again, it is designed for SLR and Broadcast lenses only. If you Have a RED camera, and need the run start stop, then the Viewfactor is a good option, as it is designed for the RED. The HF is desigined for 35mm adapters and similar.
- The controller can be used to control 3 of their motors for iris, focus and zoom.
Again, same answer as before. This is rearely required for SLR lenses, and the newer ones dont have iris rings anyway. It is called the Hocus Focus, for this very reason, its not a Hocus Focus-iris-zoom. Adding more buttons would add more to the cost.
- It has a geniusly simple automatic calibrater that sets the end stops for you.
This feature is useless against the newer DSLR lenses that have an infinatly rotatable focus rings. The viewfactor would be unuseable on these lenses, whereas the hofo is not.
- It uses cheap replaceable 9v batterys in the controller.
So does the HoFo. (10 hours battery life)
- Reversible motor direction for Nikon lenses.
So does the HoFo.
- The Hocus Focus will dominate the market if the pricing wasn't so ambitious.
Give us a few weeks and it wont be ambitious.
The Foveas seems to have dissapeared. The site has been gone for a while now.
I think if you knew the work it has taken to get the HoFo to the level it is now, you would understand why it costs more than you would like. This thing is built like a tank. I would be willing to say it is built better than the Viewfactor. Everything is machined from solid billet aluminium, no moulding or corners cut. It is rolls royce engineering and it will last. I would rather sell you a product that in 10 years will still be working, than fobb you off on a cheap plastic version that breaks easily for the sake of a few quid.
If I made a cheapo-focus and it broke on a film shoot as a result, you would be angry. The HF wont do this, and I personaly belive this reliability and peace of mind is worth every penny.
Have a look at this video, and you will see the effort and technology that goes into its construction. I would also estimate that each HoFo takes about six hours of manual screwing and soldering to complete, all undertaken by me, I do not employ anyone else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q6S-ONq53M
I was just echoing a lot of peoples thoughts here on the $2600 price. I'm sure the price will come down to something a lot more reasonable but saying that the Hofo was built specifically just for slr lenses isn't much of a selling point to me. And slr lenses with infinite focus rings? what is the world coming too. first with our camcorders and now with the lenses.
Sure it's built like a tank but what happens if you put a stiff slr lens on there, would the motor just quit or burn out? Why not just put a stronger motor in there? I'm sure that's where the extra few quid would be more appreciatedly spent than making something that would survive a nuclear blast.
Sure it's built like a tank but what happens if you put a stiff slr lens on there, would the motor just quit or burn out? Why not just put a stronger motor in there? I'm sure that's where the extra few quid would be more appreciatedly spent than making something that would survive a nuclear blast.
im not trying to make hofo look bad , but thats all i could afford . if i have more money i would go for viewfactors , almost same price and got more features . and if i had more more money i would buy bartech i could rent it easy everyone knows about it , we all been waiting for the hofo just cause it was affordable
Joseph Stunzi
Veteran
do you own a steadicam or what?
there's plenty of uses for a wireless follow focus. you can market it towards steadicam, crane/jib operator, car mounted rigs, basically anything that requires the focus puller to be away from the camera.
I see a good use is to prevent hunch back syndrome from single camera operators who have one hand on the tripod handle and one on the focus knob. If you could attach the controller to a tripod handle, with a monitor and a comfy seat, you'd have an ergonomical rig that you'd be able to use for hours without requiring a chiropractor years down the track.
I see a good use is to prevent hunch back syndrome from single camera operators who have one hand on the tripod handle and one on the focus knob. If you could attach the controller to a tripod handle, with a monitor and a comfy seat, you'd have an ergonomical rig that you'd be able to use for hours without requiring a chiropractor years down the track.
Lets be short on this matter: The Hofo is a great product, but imo not in the range of users of camera's between 2000 and 5000 us$.
If you look at the use for the product, I would say that it will last very long even with cheaper parts. How many turns will the motor make?
How many hours will the everage user use it?
So my advise is to go to China/Taiwan/Korea and find a manufacturer for the product and you will be able to sell it for about 500 bucks at a rate of selling say 10.000 units.
Of course you have to do the selling yourself via Internet.
10.000 times a profit of 100 bucks is 1 million dollars.
500 units of 2000 us$ with a profit of 500 times 600 us$ if you sell it via a reseller, is just 250.000 dollars. The reseller makes more money than you just by moving the product from one place to another.
The guy from Austalia who is selling the SxS-adapter, just did that (he went to China) and it is a succes.
If you look at the use for the product, I would say that it will last very long even with cheaper parts. How many turns will the motor make?
How many hours will the everage user use it?
So my advise is to go to China/Taiwan/Korea and find a manufacturer for the product and you will be able to sell it for about 500 bucks at a rate of selling say 10.000 units.
Of course you have to do the selling yourself via Internet.
10.000 times a profit of 100 bucks is 1 million dollars.
500 units of 2000 us$ with a profit of 500 times 600 us$ if you sell it via a reseller, is just 250.000 dollars. The reseller makes more money than you just by moving the product from one place to another.
The guy from Austalia who is selling the SxS-adapter, just did that (he went to China) and it is a succes.
Joseph Stunzi
Veteran
That makes no sense man. Whips, speed cranks... all those things are meant to help relieve these problems when pulling focus. That's a lot of money for basically an expensive LANC focus controller... (I know it's not LANC... chill out).
Look how much people are spending on rigs for their 5D2s and GH-1s? If you're using a 2000-5000 camera.... you're either using a DSLR or some sort of adapter setup if you need a remote FF. Look at the cost of your camera, a proper steadicam, a proper transmitter for video signal, and then consider the price of the HoFo. It's a pro product with pro uses... enough said.
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
IMHO, USD$1299 is the max price for us no budget indie here.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Let's all wait for Peter to announce what the direct price is, ok? Then we'll know what we're talking about. Right now, we don't.
emretufekci
Well-known member
This is an important factor I think most of the people are overlooking here. I have not used the HoFo but from the this forum and online examples posted long term reliability and functionality seems to be very strong. The very first Bartech ever produced is still out there, working, everyday. The cheap knock offs and products made affordable by cutting corners only will cost you more money in the long run.
If you were running your set that was costing you 30K a day for filming, would you buy a Hofo or the cheap Indian knock-off version of it that will probably manifest itself in the next 3 months?
I should really change my sign off to: "IF YOU CANT BUY IT, RENT IT."
emretufekci
Well-known member
Sorry Kenny but you are oversimplifying the situation. There are way too many factors that affect the business formula you are purposing.
Also resellers don't just move merchandize from point A to point B. There are a lot of hard costs involved.
Just tell me about it.
Everybody with a little dow can buy a product and sell it. The only skills you need is making it attractive for a potential buyer. The more money you have, the more chances you have to be succesful. We tend to look-up at the resellers, but they are just moving something with a nice talk.
We have to pay for the service of course, but not 30% to 80% imo.
However our world is upside down. Those who do the "jobs" are relatively poor and those who manage the "jobs" are relatively rich. Most of us don't like it that way, but a lot of us hope to be rich someday.
What you pay for a product most of the time, is not what it really costs, but what the value is on the market; i.e. what a "fool" wants to pay for it.
In the matter of the HoFo remote follow focus.
We all know how much effort and skills has been put in the devellopment; from that point allone it makes the HoFo priceless but we all want to have one. However do we want it so bad that we want to pay 2000 us$ for it?????????
emretufekci
Well-known member
Ok Kenny lets just look at it as re-selling Hofo. Lets assume I'm a re-seller.
-I need a shop/location (Rent, Utilities)
-I need multiple merchandise so people would walk in my door. (capital to purchase gear from manufacturers)
-I need employees (Workers comp, health insurance)
-I need to advertise (Website, ads)
-I need a shipping and accounting department (more people)
and so on....
For every $100 merchandise I sell as a reseller I would probably keep 3%-5% after expenses. MAYBE...
Let me ask you this again.
-If you need a RFF
-And you have the clientele
-But dont have the capital
Why not rent it? If you owned it would you rent it for free? No.
You would build it in the price. If your client asks for it, just bill them (with your margin of course).
Am I wrong?
-I need a shop/location (Rent, Utilities)
-I need multiple merchandise so people would walk in my door. (capital to purchase gear from manufacturers)
-I need employees (Workers comp, health insurance)
-I need to advertise (Website, ads)
-I need a shipping and accounting department (more people)
and so on....
For every $100 merchandise I sell as a reseller I would probably keep 3%-5% after expenses. MAYBE...
Let me ask you this again.
-If you need a RFF
-And you have the clientele
-But dont have the capital
Why not rent it? If you owned it would you rent it for free? No.
You would build it in the price. If your client asks for it, just bill them (with your margin of course).
Am I wrong?
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