Regarding hdmi 4:2:2 - why not just rec avchd & use NEOSCENE to get 10 bit 4:2:2 ??

blake2404

blake2404

Well-known member
Regarding hdmi 4:2:2 - why not just rec avchd & use NEOSCENE to get 10 bit 4:2:2 ??

Sorry if this is a dumb question.......but considering you can't get 1080 60p thru any of the external recorders then why not just go the cineform route and keep life simple?

does a nanoflash really give you that big difference?

isn't this more of a latitude tool anyway?

excuse my naivety if this is a ridiculous suggestion.
 
The question of just recording 8-bit 4:2:0 and transcoding to 10-bit 4:2:2 is about the same as just recording standard-def and upconverting to HD. Sure, you can do it, but the results will never match having shot HD in the first place. And sure, you can upconvert 8-bit 4:2:0 to 10-bit 4:2:2, but it'll never look like original genuine 10-bit 4:2:2 footage.
 
Granted that recording to 422 and converting to 422 will give some more color information........but i guess just regarding the fs100's great looking h264 wouldnt the difference be quite negligible?

cineform can give you more latitude in post (keying, heavy grading etc), that would be a benifit.......after all the hdmi is 8bit anyway.

no?.......i donno, not trying to ague h264 against the actual cineform or prores codecs, but rather the fs100's implementation of h264

also if you are doing 1080 60p you'd have to go this route anyway wouldn't you?
 
blake2404 said:
Granted that recording to 422 and converting to 422 will give some more color information........but i guess just regarding the fs100's great looking h264 wouldnt the difference be quite negligible?

cineform can give you more latitude in post (keying, heavy grading etc), that would be a benifit.......after all the hdmi is 8bit anyway.

no?.......i donno, not trying to ague h264 against the actual cineform or prores codecs, but rather the fs100's implementation of h264

also if you are doing 1080 60p you'd have to go this route anyway wouldn't you?
Click to expand...

the process you are talking about is what i do every time i log footage, i take my raw mts files and transcode them to prores 422. This does nothing to the image, it doesn't make it better for color correction, it doesn't make it easier to key, it just changes the file so that its much much easier to edit with.

recording say dvcproHD 422 on an hvx does yield a better image for color correction, keying, etc as the codec runs about 70-100mbps while avchd is 24-28mbps. Its a very big difference.
 
hmmm, i donno i've heard different.......not that Philip Bloom's word is god, but he suggests when shooting on the dslrs h264 that converting it to cineform codecs that this yeilds much more stability and latitude.

Anyhow i'm alone in this.....lol.....what do you guys do for 1080 60p?
 
blake2404 said:
hmmm, i donno i've heard different.......not that Philip Bloom's word is god, but he suggests when shooting on the dslrs h264 that converting it to cineform codecs that this yeilds much more stability and latitude.

Anyhow i'm alone in this.....lol.....what do you guys do for 1080 60p?
Click to expand...

I think you might have misunderstood. Do you have a link to such article?

Most people transcode to prores 422 or even prores 422 HQ and by doing so you're degrading your avchd codec. The best option for avchh/h.264 is to transcode to prores 422 LT but people will swear by regular 422/422HQ but LT works just as well and takes up less space.
 
hmmmm, well i'm a vegas pro user so the cineform avi is what i transcode to......pretty much stuck with that, im happy with it though.......anyways thanks for the re-education......it wasn't an artical it was the commentary near the end of "the great camera shootout 2010"
 
blake2404 said:
hmmmm, well i'm a vegas pro user so the cineform avi is what i transcode to......pretty much stuck with that, im happy with it though.......anyways thanks for the re-education......it wasn't an artical it was the commentary near the end of "the great camera shootout 2010"
Click to expand...

yeah that should work just fine.
 
Have a question for you. Since You cannot achieve 1080 60p through hdmi, what would be the best way to do slow motion when pairing with 1080/24p footage recorded 4:2:2 uncompressed through hdmi.

As far as i can see there are two logical options.

1- record 1080/60p to sdhc (h264) then transcode to 4:2:2 and edit together.

2 - record 1080/24p through hdmi (all footage), use pulldown and use slow mo tools on selected 1080/24p footage (twixtor or equivalent)

Thoughts?
 
Just do #1 no one will be able to tell the difference unless its on like a 40' projector.
 
+1

But just to reiterate: if your requirement is to, say, record some talking head interviews of well presented business executives against green screen and put an interesting background in afterwards (simply because the environment you have to film in is dull beyond reason), then shooting AVCHD and using a good quality hybrid chromakeyer like KeyLight or DVmatte Pro is absolutely fine.

If you need to record a chromakey shot with markers to track for resolving camera tracking for background replacement, if your talent has less than perfect hair or is of Wookie origin, or simply has fine, detailed edges, you need to record the HDMI output to 422, and 10 bit really helps. Your tracker software sees the trackers better. Your fine detail in the chroma stays as is when you've done your colour correction. Your Red channel doesn't blow quite so quickly as the AVCHD version did.

The difference between uprezzing AVCHD to NeoScene/ProRes and actually shooting in a 4:2:2 10 bit format is small and subtle, but sometimes small and subtle is the money shot. Or the Golden Ticket to not working the weekend. Or not having to halve your invoice because it didn't work out the way you promised.

I shoot a lot with AVCHD, even some chromakey. But I shoot Ninja when I have to.
 
Sheesh, it seems that my Cineform files are uncompressing the AVCHD at a ratio of 1:7. Ouchies. Using Cineform Neoscene.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top