Red's new Mysterium-X sensor at ISO 2000

Kholi said:
What difference does that make? The Black Eyed Peas remain at the top of the charts religiously, does that mean they actually make great music? Influence and Talent are not the same thing, nor would be Skill and Talent.
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So youre saying you cant be both talented & influential? Have you ever heard of the Beatles?
 
jess3a3 said:
I think a better analogy is the RED being a $2000 standard Les Paul guitar & the 7D being a $500 Les Paul copy. The 90% of general public wouldnt be able to tell the difference between the 2 in sound quality & neither guitar will give you the ability to play like Clapton.
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Really? I'd be willing to put 2,000 Cash on a bet that says with both the 7D and RED shooting the same scenario and post processed to their best, the average person would have no issue identifying the RED image as the better. And it should be... it costs several thousands more.

The Car Analogies are best. Civics aren't BMW's, the entire planet will acknowledge that regardless if they both take you from A-to-B. Hell, Civic even gets mileage! sweet!

jess3a3 said:
So youre saying you cant be both talented & influential? Have you ever heard of the Beatles?
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No, I don't recall typing that. I do recall typing, and posting, that Talent and Influence do not go hand-in-hand. Again, neither do Skill and Talent.

This still without establishing an opinion, on this forum, on whether or not I feel George Lucas has talent or Skill.

Edit Here: You're proposing an argument that people should concentrate on the ideas and not the technology. It isn't something that I disagree with, I don't feel you're making your point with valid arguments. It's enough to simply say the tools are what they are, just shoot something great and get access to better tools later.
 
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There are plenty of people blessed with talent, skill, influence and much more. They are usually in the category of successful individuals. Also you can make a crap movie with a Red and a great movie with a 7D and vice versa. There is no doubt about that either.
 
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Man, I never thought I'd say the images are too good. Now you'll have to add noise and grain in post to make it look like film, he he he.

How much is the upgraded sensor? Anyone know the wait time right now?
 
Barry_Green said:
Actually, I don't recall anyone ever saying that the Red's image wasn't good enough.
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If the only forums that you read are this site and RED user I don't doubt that you never heard a negative word about the camera. That's like watching nothing but FOX News and saying that everything reported is unbiased. Of course if you only watched MSNBC you would have the same issue with a one sided opinion.

Barry_Green said:
I don't think anyone, "old school cinematographers" or otherwise, complained about the image not being "up to snuff."
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For Pete's sake change the channel once in awhile.
http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showforum=65
 
In the February American Society of Cinematographers magazine is a long and rather critical article about the Red by Chrisopher Probst, who has used the camera for a number of music videos. His critcisms are specific and numerous, and experienced based.

Some of his issues are very practical, having to do with poor battery mounts, overheating due to battery location and long reboot times. Others have to do with his evaluation of the true resolution and the de-Bayer process.

Check it out.
 
ChipG said:
...
How much is the upgraded sensor? Anyone know the wait time right now?
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I was already contacted by Red about two weeks ago asking me to do the upgrade as I'm in the first eligible group, (#214). I'm DPing a feature for another production company at the moment and coupled with a project which is waiting for principle to wrap on this one, I won't be able to do the upgrade until the end of March at the earliest. Same thing happened last year when they came out with the new audio card. Even though that one was a free upgrade, it was over four months until there was a break long enough in my schedule to get it in. Except for when the camera first arrived just after Christmas over two years ago now, for the most part Red has really been waiting for me to get my act together.

As for the upgrade price, its just under 6k.
 
I think the cool thing about the 7D, GH1, etc, is that they allow low-budget guys to make something that could conceivably be projected and look decent someday. I know you'll say that this has been true since mini DV came out, but frankly, I could never really get myself into this filmmaking thing until HD started to become affordable, I just didn't like the imagery of mini-dv when I crewed on DVX documentary in Guatemala for the first time a couple of years back.

The Red would definitely look better though. It's funny because someone knocked me earlier for focusing so much on the cameras...I think it's the people that insist the 7D is somehow as good as the Red or good enough for cheap so better or whatever...that are too focused on the camera. Saying Lucas, or any of the Fog City Mavericks with a little talent could make something good on ANY camera is too focused on the camera. No shi*, right?

I shoot on a tight balance of what could theoretically be broadcast, looks good to me and I can afford. Basically, as the last category goes upward, I'll be using equipment that looks REALLY good too me and will make a better HD broadcast. Money is unfortunately always the bottom line, which is why the DSLRs are so cool, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.

Other ergonomic sorts of concerns apply also. I'm about to take a few small cameras into the relative battle-ground of Carnival/marti-gras, I doubt I'd do that with a RED. But I don't think I'd shoot a feature on the 7D. Maybe pickups for a feature length documentary where most of the footage was shot on quad 35 years ago. In fact we're going to.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes, but WHAT DOES HE USE THEM FOR?

He uses them for the little security-camera insert shots on computer monitors. He uses them for background plates that get rear-projected behind their process cars. Same kinds of things he used to use the JVC HD100s for. Same kinds of things he used to use a SONY PD150 for!

Do you think Rodney Charters is shooting a multi-million-dollar television show on a $2700 DSLR? No. Or, more appropriately, HELL NO.

He uses them for appropriate things. Things where a $2700 still camera is appropriate. Maybe a background plate here or there. Or a security camera. But the show itself is shot on 3-perf Super35 film, not on a 5D.
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/di/depth/video_workflow/




Here's him showing how he uses the 5D, to make background plates for driving sequences. As in, it's the stuff they show outside the windows of the car. Not exactly A-camera stuff.
http://blog.planet5d.com/2010/02/how-to-make-plates-for-foxs-24-on-the-canon-eos-5d-mark-ii/

Here's an interview from him from just about four months ago, talking about what he shoots and how. He shoots film. Even though there's tremendous pressure on him to convert to video, he shoots film.

So how does he use the 5D? He uses it for the same job that they used to do with PD150's. When they started the show he used the standard-def, interlaced Sony PD150 to shoot background plates. A few years later he changed to a 24p HDV camera, the JVC HD100, and then recently he's been using the 5D.

So let's have an end of the "Rodney Charters Uses The 5D on 24" stuff, unless you're willing to put it in context -- which is, "Rodney doesn't use a 5D to shoot anything that gets seen on screen as an actual full-frame image, but he will use it to do the same job he used to consider a PD150 good enough for."
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Seems that the guys that actually use these cameras have a different opinion on how these canon cams are going to be used.

http://vimeo.com/9243537
 
mico said:
Seems that the guys that actually use these cameras have a different opinion on how these canon cams are going to be used.
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Really? Because in that very video, which is showing the 5Ds being used exactly as I said they were, Charters himself said it would be used "as a B-camera, as a plate camera..."

I'm not saying that's all they'd be good for. I'm saying that's what Rodney Charters uses them for on "24".
 
they call all the Rebel cameras "kiss" in Japan... the band has some kind of monopoly with Canon haha... it's odd.

thanks for the link btw, looks like it'll be a great little camera for $800.
 
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Barry_Green said:
Really? Because in that very video, which is showing the 5Ds being used exactly as I said they were, Charters himself said it would be used "as a B-camera, as a plate camera..."

I'm not saying that's all they'd be good for. I'm saying that's what Rodney Charters uses them for on "24".
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In that very video they're talking about use other than B and plate. They're asking canon for cine lenses and facial tracking autofocus. Thats not plate shot needs. B cam can also be A cam like. B cam encompasses a wide variety of shooting setups like being right next to A cam.
 
Rodney doesn't. Rodney says "B-camera and as a plate camera". The other guy is the one who says "oh, it'll go more places, it'll go to second unit, it'll go to first unit" and Charters doesn't say a word to that.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes, but WHAT DOES HE USE THEM FOR?
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Hmm…I seemed to have missed this response the first time around.

I don’t think anyone here (at least not I) is suggesting he is using this camera as an “A” camera. I know the show is shot on film. I think it’s obvious from the link (which is why I provided it) that he used them as a background plate camera. My point was that professionals are using it (and cameras like it) in some capacity on sets that have bigger bankrolls.

But your point with “putting in context” is well taken. Matter of fact here is a more in-depth video of how they were using these “plates.” He stated that they shot all the plates for this season the 5Dll and 1Ds. They will be moving them into principle photography second unit and then into first unit.

http://vimeo.com/9243537

Edit: I missed your response while typing.

Edit: Um...I think this thread might be vearing off course...maybe? So...sorry to the OP. The new Red M-X sensor kicks &$$!!!!
 
I know what you're saying, Ian. I just think it'd be good to occasionally inject some real-world reality checks in once in a while.

For example -- look at the BAFTA event. Someone posted a picture of "Canon Goes To The Movies" and then Canonrumors.com says "perhaps a new camera?" and then the next thing you know, the HDWarrior blog is flat-out proclaiming that Canon WILL be announcing a 50 megabit 4:2:2 cinema-oriented camcorder on February 8th. Which was, of course, hogwash -- no new camera was announced, that event was never about any camera introductions, and we'd already heard from Canon (through Chris Hurd's article) that NO new large-sensor camera will be introduced by Canon AT ALL, at least not in 2010.

So someone says "Rodney Charters uses the 5D Mark II" and the next thing you know, we have an entire forum of people thinking that the 5D Mk II is being used for principle photography on a major television show, just like the HD100 folks used to brag about how Charters was using the HD100 on "24", and then people started saying "The show '24' is shot on the HD100."

It isn't. It's silly to say it is. It's wildly inaccurate. There's a massive huge unbelievably large gap between "using it for background plates" and "Charters shoots '24' on the 5D".

Charters himself said that the 5D was appropriate for background plates, and B-camera stuff. Charters didn't say anything about moving it into principle photography on the 2nd unit or the first unit.

The fact that any member of the ASC endorses using any of these affordable products for *anything* should be victory enough for their proponents; we should be fair to those people by keeping their words in context and not perpetuating any sort of misrepresentation of what they said or meant.
 
I gotcha.

I hate to admit it but I feel like the way these guys are pressing hard for Canon to up their game.. once Scarlet debuts… these DSLRs will suddenly be a “Fad” of the past.

(that's of course if Canon doesn't respond in a positive direction).
 
Ian-T said:
these DSLRs will suddenly be a “Fad” of the past.
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Among professional use? Unquestionably. Absolutely unquestionably.

But for budget shooters and incognito stuff, there's nothing Scarlet can do about a $799 MSRP. And the footage usually looks shockingly good for that price, and the problems in the footage -- well, if all you've got is $799, then who cares about the problems? But if you're shooting 4 million feet of film per season, you don't have to accept the limitations that come with the $799 price tag, so ... yeah, expect Scarlet (or a proper large-sensor video camera from Panasonic, Sony, or Canon) to eat the DSLR's lunch entirely in all actual adequately-budgeted feature film and television work.
 
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