Red's new Mysterium-X sensor at ISO 2000

Kholi said:
...the 7D is a vastly inferior image. Sure, it's cheap, that's great, but it has nothing on a real cinema tool.
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If you replace "7D" with "RED camera" this statement sounds a lot like the discussions/debates that took place in the early RED days.

...the RED camera is a vastly inferior image. Sure, it's cheap, that's great, but it has nothing on a real cinema tool.

Back then it was the old school cinematographers arguing that the RED camera wasn't good enough. And now it's the RED owners that protest when a cheaper alternative comes along.

Me thinks thou protest too much.
 
milksac said:
Back then it was the old school cinematographers arguing that the RED camera wasn't good enough. And now it's the RED owners that protest when a cheaper alternative comes along.
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It's funny how we don't learn from history...

Fact is 7D/5Dll/and soon T2 are real cinema tools to those who use it as such. I'll say it again...5 years ago (before Red) folks would have killed for the features we see on these small cams...

Some folks might be having delusions of grandeur with these tiny little cameras...but then again there are many folks who own expensive cameras and have nothing to show for it. I say anything is possible.
 
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milksac said:
If you replace "7D" with "RED camera" this statement sounds a lot like the discussions/debates that took place in the early RED days.

...the RED camera is a vastly inferior image. Sure, it's cheap, that's great, but it has nothing on a real cinema tool.

Back then it was the old school cinematographers arguing that the RED camera wasn't good enough. And now it's the RED owners that protest when a cheaper alternative comes along.

Me thinks thou protest too much.
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Well, Digital is pretty inferior in a number of ways to Film. And, the 7D is certainly inferior to the RED in several ways...

Maybe people should just stop trying to make their 1,500.00 product more than it is and just use it???
 
milksac said:
If you replace "7D" with "RED camera" this statement sounds a lot like the discussions/debates that took place in the early RED days.

...the RED camera is a vastly inferior image. Sure, it's cheap, that's great, but it has nothing on a real cinema tool.

Back then it was the old school cinematographers arguing that the RED camera wasn't good enough. And now it's the RED owners that protest when a cheaper alternative comes along.
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Actually, I don't recall anyone ever saying that the Red's image wasn't good enough. There were plenty of gripes about it not being "ready" for use, because of the firmware revisions, crashing, reboot times, all that early "growing pains" stuff, but I don't think anyone, "old school cinematographers" or otherwise, complained about the image not being "up to snuff."

Kholi's protestations are based on simple and expert observation.
 
Good enough has different meaning at $2,000, $30,000, $400,000. Everything is relative. And 70% of the performance at 10% of the cost always finds its market.
 
Kholi said:
Well, Digital is pretty inferior in a number of ways to Film. And, the 7D is certainly inferior to the RED in several ways...

Maybe people should just stop trying to make their 1,500.00 product more than it is and just use it???
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With his talent, George Lucas could have made Star Wars using a 7d , but 99% of Red Camera users will never even make movie shown in a Movie Theatre.
 
So what? What the hell are you talking about? 99.99999% of 7D users will never make a damn thing worth 30 views on Vimeo. The Red is awesome. Can I afford one yet? No. Do I like HDSLRS? Yes! I don't understand the way some of these debates go.
 
Kellar42 said:
So what? What the hell are you talking about? 99.99999% of 7D users will never make a damn thing worth 30 views on Vimeo. The Red is awesome. Can I afford one yet? No. Do I like HDSLRS? Yes! I don't understand the way some of these debates go.
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L O L really, though. Not even gonna comment on George Lucas and talent....
 
jess3a3 said:
With his talent, George Lucas could have made Star Wars using a 7d , but 99% of Red Camera users will never even make movie shown in a Movie Theatre.
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The same figure applies for 7D owners, HVX, owners, HPX owners and iPhone owners...

Nobody is telling anyone here that they can't shoot a great piece with a 7D. What I am saying is that the 7D is not a RED ONE, or a RED ONE with Mysterium-X employed. It's nowhere near it, and it's high time the comparisons stop and people realize the tool for what it is, not what they want it to be.
 
I think what milksac is trying to say is that some of those same pros who were used to shooting primarily on film or $100,000 digital cams took the concept of a Red camera as a joke. I don't necessarily know if performance had anything to do with it but some folks (regardless of what kind of product) equate higher costs with "better" quality. Whether or not, for example, that was true with the Red One vs a Viper etc., in their minds a cam at this price point could never be considered a "professional tool" like a cam costing tens of thousands more. So..the point was...we are making the same type of conclusions with these DSLRs.
 
Kellar42 said:
So what? What the hell are you talking about? 99.99999% of 7D users will never make a damn thing worth 30 views on Vimeo. The Red is awesome. Can I afford one yet? No. Do I like HDSLRS? Yes! I don't understand the way some of these debates go.
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The point is worry more about ideas than cameras
 
jess3a3 said:
Care to list filmmakers more influential on modern cinema than George Lucas?
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What difference does that make? The Black Eyed Peas remain at the top of the charts religiously, does that mean they actually make great music? Influence and Talent are not the same thing, nor would be Skill and Talent.
 
Ian-T said:
Whether or not, for example, that was true with the Red One vs a Viper etc., in their minds a cam at this price point could never be considered a "professional tool" like a cam costing tens of thousands more. So..the point was...we are making the same type of conclusions with these DSLRs.
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Yeah, but no. Because in one case, you're comparing a purpose-built digital cinema camera to a purpose-built digital cinema camera. In the other case, you're comparing a photojournalist still camera against a purpose-built digital cinema camera.

Huge, HUGE gulf between them.

The SLR doesn't even have a headphone jack, fer cryin' out loud...
 
Heh...oK...I tried ....

But you're right ...they don't compare. Not even close. Just trying to help a brother out.

I just downloaded that Red clip of Leonardo smoking a cigar. Reality just slapped the...**&^ out of me.
 
The enthusiasm is understandable; the 7D is like a prodigy 6-year-old guitar player who does a great job playing an Eric Clapton song.

But the Red is Eric Clapton.
 
All of this is moot until the Scarlet, and more likely the S35 Scarlet, is in your hands. Right now I'm finding incredible value in thinking in terms using DOF as a filmmaking tool, which has never been an option in the cameras I've owned before.

So the Canon DSLRs are here now. ANd with them you can get so amazing results to practice with and have a pretty decent stills camera to boot.

And now with the T2i, you've a dirt cheap platform to play around with.

I love the idea of using 10 T2i's to shoot funky and bizarre coverage of a scene, and that's still going to be around the base price of a single S35 Scarlet.

We are coming out of an era where we lived with and lied to ourselves that SD 60i DV footage was good enough. All of the Canon DSLR's are lightyears ahead of those cameras in terms of what the average viewer see and perceives.

Can you hope to high and think that it's as good as a Red MX? Yes, but that's delusional. It's a hack that has turned in some amazing results.

Part of what Red grew out of was Jim's frustration that Moore's law was not applying to video cameras. Because of Red we are starting to see the simultaneous factors of being cheaper and better merge to our benefit.

The question will become, will Red be able to stay ahead of the curve as it has done so far, or will the giants awaken and crush it? If anyone can do it, it's Mr. Jannard. But just look at the progression, 17 months ago the 5Dmkii was announced and this week we got the T2i, same basic tech but with many more refinements and they're actually in the hands of people. In 18 more months there'll be many more refinements.

As for right now, use the DSLRs to learn and get better, when the Scarlets are out use them if they suit your needs and budget.

I bought my 7D the day after the 10/30 announcement and I've taken thousands of pictures and hours of video because it ignites my creativity to have such a tool. It literally makes me want to create and get better as an image creator and filmmaker.

The cycle of waiting is just toxic. Get the best camera you can that won't bankrupt you and get busy learning how to make better images/films.
 
What? We're talking about a FACTUAL RED ONE Mysterium-X Upgrade, several of which have been delivered.

We're not talking about Scarlet.
 
Barry_Green said:
The enthusiasm is understandable; the 7D is like a prodigy 6-year-old guitar player who does a great job playing an Eric Clapton song.

But the Red is Eric Clapton.
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I think a better analogy is the RED being a $2000 standard Les Paul guitar & the 7D being a $500 Les Paul copy. The 90% of general public wouldnt be able to tell the difference between the 2 in sound quality & neither guitar will give you the ability to play like Clapton.
 
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