Redrock M2 Weight Question

K

korepsych

Active member
Hi all,

I was looking for a steadycam to buy, and was looking at the flowpod but it only supports 8 lbs...

Does anyone out there know how much an HVX + Redrock + follow focus + Marshall monitor roughly weighs when put together?

thanks!
 
Depending on which rails and whether you also have a mattebox/filters and which batteries to othe HVX & monitor then rgd is pretty close to spot on at around 15 lbs.

Naturaly if you sling a Nikon 300mm F2 lense off the front...then that's a whole nuther ball game.

Pete.
 
I have the HVX, GearDear matt box (Medium Package), 180mm 2.8f nikon lense, M2 adapter w/ Redrock rails, and my quick release plate under the redrock base plate, a senheiser m66, and its 15.5lb so far. No Monitor yet and no follow focus. I'm guessing about 20-22lbs
 
My HVX+Marshall+Batteries(2)+Petroff Matte box+Chroziel Follow Focus+Zacuto Base Plate+M2 with Nikon 50mm+big Noga Arm= 18.7lbs

Now, if you get a pro stabilizer such as the Steadicam flyer, You would have to substract the Marschall monitor and the batteries, since most stabilizer come with their own monitor and batteries set-up.
 
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Just wait for Mikko to chime in.. but I doubt very much you want to fly the m2 anyway.
 
Hey thanks so much I really appreciate that! Hey what lenses did you buy? I'm planning on purchasing an M2 myself
 
The big problem with flying cameras with 35mm adapters is focus. Remember, no touching the camera during the shot! Wanna have an assistant pull focus? That needs a remote focus system. It's just a real pain, because even the cheapest good remote focus device is around $4k for a full system. Only being able to set your focus and then have to stay a specific distance away from the subject just negates the whole idea of a Steadicam - to be able to move freely with a camera.

Really, there aren't a whole lot of options here. You can get a nice rig like the Flyer, and rent a BFD whenever you need to use the 35mm adaptor, or you could forgoe the adaptor, and shoot it using the huge DOF from the 1/3" chips, or, for some shots, a dolly can do the job a Steadicam could - except easier.

P.S. Wait until Mikko gets into this thread before you start making big decisions. He knows Steadicams inside and out. He'll help you out.
 
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K, thanks everyone for the help I will wait until i hear word, b/c I am wanting to buy a steadicam but only have about $3000 to work with... I know that limits me pretty severely... I'm looking at the flowpod or glidecam4000 with a dv sportster vest.... I know it'll handle my HVX and Firestore no problem, but the next big purchase is going to be the M2 so that is a factor in which steadicam I purchase... Perhaps I'll have to just wait on the steadicam and get the M2 first?
 
Well, Focus is a problem with any 35mm camera, not just 35mm adaptor, and yet it's done all the time... And it's only a problem if your aperture is wide open, moreover a good operator know how to keep a constant distant between him(her) and his subject(S). You can also rent a wireless follow focus.
 
True, but the more expensive the "toys" you use with your cam, the more expensive the shot becomes. Also I feel that a lot of people that use 35mm really push the shallow DOF look a bit too far, most movies don't have that much, at least not all the time. It's especially true with steadicam shots, there usually is very little.
By the way, here is a good website that showcase some very nice steadycam shots.
http://www.steadishots.org/index.cfm
enjoy.
 
SomewhereinLA said:
Well, Focus is a problem with any 35mm camera, not just 35mm adaptor, and yet it's done all the time... And it's only a problem if your aperture is wide open, moreover a good operator know how to keep a constant distant between him(her) and his subject(S). You can also rent a wireless follow focus.
Click to expand...

I'd just say either rent a BFD or just ditch the 35. Really, there are plenty of situations in which it can be a problem if the aperature isn't wide open, and for some shots keeping a constant distance just plain doesn't work.

Let's see where Mikko stands on all of this. I'm sure he'll be on this thread like... something that's on something else.:huh::Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

-Tom
(Steadi-guru wannabe)
 
[Day: INT]
Mikko slowly walks out onto the stage and looks out at the faces staring back at him.
He slowly picks up a glass of water from the lectern and takes a sip.

Beat.

Mikko clears his throat and begins...

MIKKO
I'd like to start by thanking all those who nominated me to be here tonight. :)​



Lots of good points in this thread, especially by ncie, Tom and SomwhereinLA.

Lets split this up a little...

35mm adapters
The main point of a 35mm adapter is to dramatically reduce depth of field of a 1/3" camera to emulate the DoF of a 35mm camera. Many view this as beeing more "cinematic", which is fair enough. I'm of the oppinion that's it's a bit of a fad at the moment. In adition to shallow DoF, it also brings in many other 355 production features: 35mm lens, heavier cameras requireding more support, more equipment costs, more time for manual work, need for more lighting power, agian more poeepl and costs, negation of video accessories for more advanced (and costly) film accessories. You start going in the direction o "if you want to shoot 35mm, then shoot on 35mm!". These new adapters, just as 24p, or even the video camera in general, make the tools more availabel to everyone to use when necesarry. And that's a great thing. However just beacuse you can do something, it doesn't mean you should. The needs of the shot should dictate the tools needed. When used correctly it's a great tool for some great shots, when used all the time it looses it's meaning.

Steadicam shots
When the shot calls for a camera to move in a way that can't be for whatever reason (time, money, physical possiblity) produced with a more tradiational camera mount like a dolly or crane, then the Steadicam is a fantastic tool. By giving the operator (and those who hired him/her) incredible freedom over camera placement and movement, it can save a lot of time and moneya nd make things possibel that wheren't before. In TV land it a very economical camera mount due to it's flexibility. In world of Movies it's ability to do stuff that nothing else can is what makes it so special. In the past few years (as patents have expired) there has been an influx of "Steadicam knockoffs" that bring similar tools down to prices that are affordable by consumers. There are Steadicam, and other brand, stabilizers for almost every situation. As a result, many belive that the magic of Steadicam can improve every situation. It too has become a bit of a fad. Just look on e-bay at the adsurd array of "Steadicam type stabilisers" that are of course rediculous, but their exsistanse, just like for example e-mail spam, means that someone is buying them.
Steadicam is a very very powerfull tool, that takes years to master. In the profesional world there are dedicated Steadicam operators (like myself) who do it as a job. A provessional knows when it's time to hire another profesional. Of course at the consumer and gorrilla production level you have to do it yourself, and as of recent there are the cheaper, lighter, simpler, stabilsers available to make it possible. However just beacuse you can do something, it doesn't mean you should. The needs of the shot should dictate the tools needed. When used correctly it's a great tool for some great shots, when used all the time it looses it's meaning.


35mm Steadicam shots, what it takes
What hapens when you combine this tools?
35mm brings in demands for 35mm production style and euqipment. Steadicam brings in the possibileties for low end consumer systems. These don't mix.
35mm production (even with an electornic 1/3" video body behind the lens) requires a higher level Steadicam system. Ok, we dont' need 24volts, and the whoel kit wieghs less than a full out 35mm camera. Both these things are a godsend. However you won't be able to get away with the same stabilizer you'd use for a regular video camera, that's not what you are using.
For example: As Tom pointed out you can't touch the camera (or lens) during a Steadicam shot. This means that to focus you will need the radio focus equipment necesarry for 35mm production. The cheapest good system at the moment is in deed almost $4k. The pricy ones go up well over $20k ... just to focus.

Then of course you have to ask yourself if you need the carachteristics of 35mm for your Steadicam shots? Sometimes a shallow DoF looks really really good on a long lens steaicam shot. However most of the time the movement of the camera is used to deliver the message, to highlight the things that 35mm is also sometimes used for. In the 35mm world, a lot of work is done to increase DoF for Steadicam shots because it's not normally desirable.


Your options, and my advice
Ok. So your shots call for 35mm Steadicam? Fair enough. You will need:
- A 35mm set up.
- A remote follow focus.
- A Stabilizer caipable of supporting the gear while allowing for the necesarry quality and performance needed for the shot.
- A good camera asistant (another profession in itself) to pull focus.
- Lights, power, & crew to get enough light for the shot.
- And of course a operator for the Steadicam
To do this with the HVX200 and M2, and FF gear (for example the BFD) as has been described in another thread mentioned ealier, you will need a Steadicam Flyer or larger rig (Archer, Clipper, etc..). The only rigs from Glidecam that can do this are the V25 and Gold Series.

You don't really need to have the budget for 35mm DoF Steadicam shots? Then you have more options.
All you need is the rig & operator
The HVX will fly on the Steadicam Merlin, The GC4k, (+ Smooth Shooter if you want), The Flowpod, etc... in adition to the bigger rigs mentioned above.

Some things to keep in mind when choosing a stabilier:
A handheld rig will tired you out very quickly. You are limeted to shorter shots, but you are more flexible. The lighter a handheld rig, the better.
A good full rig will be very emporing and allow you to carry more stuff withotu getting tired. However a poorly designed rig will limit your posibileties through
If you care enough quality to work with gear like the HVX, then you allready appriciate that you will get what you pay for, keep this in mind when shopping for stabilisers too.

My advice?
Either nix the 35mm Steadicam shots and embrace the possebileties of the shallow DoF that the 1/3" chips bring and pick up a nice lightwiehgt handheld Stabilizer like the Steadicam Merlin.
Or
Go full out and shoot 35mm style with a 35mm adapter and get the gear to match. A Steadicam Flyer and a BFD for focus are a the best way to get started. If you want more then look into bigger rigs like the Archer. Keep in mind the need for an AC and other requirements of 35mm production.
Or
Go 35mm, but instead hire a Steadicam operator and AC with the above gear for the Steaicam shots.


- Mikko ... exits stage left.
 
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