RED venting

thanks for the very level headed view Barry. I feel like I'm representing the REDusers in this thread, and even though I know the topic wasn't addressed toward me, I did feel a sense of "my friends being picked on" and I couldn't help but want to step in and defend the site.

I'll once again reiterate what has been said 20 times now. Different cameras for different people/tasks. For me, I wanted HD, S35mm sensor, RAW recording, all in a package I could afford to own, and the RED ONE is the only camera currently on the market that fit that bill. And ever since I've been using mine, I've learned of more and more cool things I can do with it. Even I can point out problems with, though. I wish the sensor was a little more sensitive, I wish the form factor was more manageable (damn is the 5D attractive in that regard), and my dvx100 never took a minute and a half to turn on :) but even with those nitpicks I love working with the camera and it fits my needs awesomely.

Anyway, I've learned a ton from the many helpful, friendly folks I know from REDuser, and I in return try to politely be as helpful as I can to others every chance I get, and I think it's been a really cool community. :)
 
I've done a number of shoots on a RED, and I am currently in post on a feature shot on a RED and an HVX. I love the camera and the workflow. The thing that gets me is that sometimes we forget that a camera is a tool. The skill of the user is (more often than not) a greater factor than the tool itself. While it is true that something sot on pixelvision will never have the resolution of the RED (or any HD camera), if it is better lit, with a better script, better audio and more effective editing, it still makes a better final product.

It is so odd to me that a camera can be so polarizing. I recently responded to a craigslist ad about some audio gear for sale. We chatted a bit and when I mentioned a shoot I was on with the RED, the guy said "They ever get that piece of crap fixed?"
 
Barry, as always you speak the truth! And it was never my intention to rain on the RED-parade (ok maybe the super-egos, but...). I totally agree, if you're happy, be happy, and even if it's delusional, once again however they find their cinematic joy, L'Chaim.

That's why I posted this in the DVXuser site. I would NEVER post this in Reduser.net. And Cheesesailor77 is an excellent example of an astute Red user; and I'd rather be proven wrong when pointing out a negative thing, than be right, just to be right. To get a tangible POV from a sane user renews my faith in their culture, and ideally we could "all just get along!"

I simply felt the need to vocalize a thing that I found annoying. And as I always try to point out, no one has to read or reply to a post.

But back to the happy-factor... as you pointed out being rabid is fine. What I found annoying and pandemic in comparison to the other sites is the red fanboys Slamming all of the other cameras. And yes, they totally have the right. It's their forum. But I also have the right to find it ignorant and irritating, and comment on it in a forum that may feel the same.

This is speaking as a current Panny user, who is looking at Scarlet and even the Red One as a possible option for a project I have down the line (which is why I was going over there), it just turns me off from the red culture. And since the cams they tend to slam are 10x more expensive then I'd likely be able to afford unless I became seriously lucky, I don't have a vested interest in defending Panny, or my camera.

And thanks for the heads up about the comparison study. I can't wait to see the results. Some hard data to guide to guide the users. Good info is a form of beauty to me.

BTW, I just saw Knowing... some thoughts coming soon. (I loved the movie BTW, but I had some observations--none of them designed to rain on anyone's parade :) )
 
REDuser is a good forum to discuss and research the camera and workflow.
Where it gets kind of odd is when I read slavish adulation for the camera and technology itself that others here have noted. I find that it's mostly the non-professionals and beginners who are emotionally tied to a specific camera. And beginning directors/general filmmakers who believe that the technology of the camera will enable to them to make better films.

Most people who have done this for a while, just view cameras as what they are - tools. Most professionals here in LA, when working with a real budget, just rent their stuff from one of the camera houses or Panavision - that includes RED rentals. I admit that I am particularly fond of Arris, but I would never think that my choice of shooting on an Arri will bring my career to a different level, or do anything much for me other than providing a camera body I trust and am familiar with.
 
Even when people started talking about the Red here it was heavily hyped. I have not used one so I have no idea if the camera measures up to the hype.

It might be nice, however, if they were guided by a simple slogan "underwhelm and over-deliver."

I have stayed away from the Red because of rhetoric they have always used in their marketing and on-line. I'm sure there a lots of others like me and I'm equally sure they don't care.
 
Jason Ramsey said:
you guys are still talking about this?
Click to expand...

I just stumbled across this thread; I'm glad I did, and i'm glad that people are still talking about it.

The internet allows anyone to declare themselves an authority on the subject and offer advice and opinions. What I find particularly maddening is not unique to Reduser, or this industry for that matter- there are MANY people on-line (in forums and blogs) who speak beyond their learning and experience and repeat rumor as fact without a second thought or any kind of fact-checking. I'm convinced that at least 25% of these experts are also misrepresenting their actual status as professional in the field they are claiming (be it DP, Director, or Filmmaker).

A lot of technical concepts of digital imaging, are in fact- COMPLEX. It's a shame when people speak beyond their experience, it helps no one. Concepts regarding color, optics, light and electrons can be challenging, and it is not always easy to explain to both a lay and expert audience information that is easy to understand and be factually correct.

What I see is a big game of telephone when it come to most forum discussions on the merits (or demerits) of the technical aspects of digital/film camera imaging systems. Dvxuser and many others others online forums are no different. I think you have to just go with it, and try to help where you can.

Reduser too, has a problem with this. But what I think arrestthisman is seeing is how Reduser handles things a bit differently. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for heavy moderating, but in my experience, I found the site is more likely to allow inaccurate information to be perpetuated by some 'members' who are generally non-critical, and allow their speaking out-of-turn without any apparent correction from the management. OTOH, those who tend to speak neutrally (let alone critically) are sometime regarded with contempt- and at worst as heretic.

IMO, this is a choice, and arrestthisman and others may find it obnoxious, although I truly don't know if it's is a good or bad thing for Red. As the official forum of the Red camera system, I know that the 'low signal to noise' ratio has a much more negative effect on the perception of the Red system in most higher-end professional circles. However, their primary user base is independents- those far more willing to gamble on new technology, especially if it can be rented for very low $. Independents, perhaps to their detriment, don't seem to care about what genuine experts seem to think (or perhaps they just can't distinguish who is a genuine expert.) I've found some Independents quite willing to accept what a 'CNET', some guy on Craigslist, or what several filmmaking publications (and their associated websites) say as the gospel truth. I can't tell you how often I find magazines (and newspapers) printing stories that were not fact checked by any real expert in this industry- a tragedy and lazy reporting.

The success of Red in being adopted by the low-budget independent ranks is astounding. But it shouldn't be, as this primary target user is seeking perceived value above all else. It's the same marketing methodology as Final Cut Pro. I see the best comparison between Red fanatics and the fanatics for Final Cut Pro. Again, I don't know if this is a bad thing for Red. Their marketing- and I believe the hub for much of that marketing to be the Reduser site, has worked amazingly well. My hat is off to them. They sold a lot of cameras and accessories.

As an outsider I think it's easy for me to see what they could do to be more effective, but really I can't argue with success. I'm as curious as everyone else to see what they do next. Some of my best friends and business associates are big Red and Final Cut Pro fans. So they really like to tell me about the latest FCP or Red news whenever we get together. I usually don't spend much time on Reduser these days, does anyone know if they ever build that Ranch in Vegas? I couldn't seem to find out last time I used the Reduser search engine.
 
Last edited:
Stay away from the cool aid

kool-aidman.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top