RED-One vs. Sony PDW700 Camcorder for TV "only" ??

G

George D.

Well-known member
Because we are a VERY small production company, shooting mainly documentaries of wildlife and natural history for television companies like National Geographic, PBS, Discovery Channel, etc., and we are going to have to use our "own" funds to buy a new camera, it now comes down to what we can afford for our purposes.

We can wait no longer for the Scarlet, so it is now a decision between the RED-One and the Sony PDW700 Camcorder.

Considering taxes, since we live in California, the cost of the RED-One is now more than the Sony (with the exception of a color viewfinder for the camcorder). Considering the 2/3" sensor of the Sony vs. the full frame RED-One, the Sony would suit our needs better because we can use our specialty Super16 lenses, etc., and since we only shoot for television anyway.

At this point, the ONLY advantage I can see for the RED-One is that it comes with a color EVF.

I would greatly appreciate anyone's input, opinions, advise, and recommendations about the benefits or drawbacks of these two cameras.

Thanks.

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The Sony's a video camera. The Red One isn't. I'd think for the purposes you're describing, the Sony would be the much better buy, although the PDW700 doesn't offer 24p by itself; you may want to look at the PDW800. I think there may be a 24p upgrade for the 700, but I haven't paid attention.

I don't think you're going to be able to use S16 lenses on the PDW series though. Those are designed for single-sensor film style cameras, and won't work in a three-chip system like the PDW700.
 
Just a thought. Maybe opt for the PDW700 package with a decent B4 lens now, add a Scarlet 2/3" interchangeable package to the mix for use with your S16 lenses when available. Higher 3k resolution for S16 glass than the S35 reds, 120fps continuous frame rates, HDRx for high contrast outdoor scenes. At around $10k or less for a practical field package without lenses that should be easily doable if you are making the production bucks to support a PDW-700 class package and would a good entry level choice into Red work flow. Red supports aftermarket options like battery systems, so you could share items like that between the two.
 
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Barry_Green said:
The Sony's a video camera. The Red One isn't. I'd think for the purposes you're describing, the Sony would be the much better buy, although the PDW700 doesn't offer 24p by itself; you may want to look at the PDW800. I think there may be a 24p upgrade for the 700, but I haven't paid attention.

I don't think you're going to be able to use S16 lenses on the PDW series though. Those are designed for single-sensor film style cameras, and won't work in a three-chip system like the PDW700.
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If that is true about the S16 lenses, it completely blows the Sony out of the ball park, and we'll most definitely be getting the RED-One or Scarlet.

Can anyone verify that info?

Thanks.

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Film lenses are designed to focus on one plane. That's why Red, SI2K etc. chose single-sensor designs -- it emulates the way a film camera works and they can therefore use film lenses.

Video camera manufacturers learned long ago that the best color reproduction comes from having three separate chips, using a prism that splits the light to the three different chips. Video lenses are manufactured to work with that prism in the optical path.

If you want a 2/3" camera that works with film lenses, Ikonoskop is supposed to be shipping their A-Cam now, and Silicon Imaging is shipping their SI2K.
 
My advice: get the PDW800, it's in the Cine-Alta class of Sony cameras, has variable frame rates (including 24p as Barry mentioned), acquires in in the MPEG 422 HD (50mb/s), and will last you for quite a while.
 
George there are 2/3" cine lenses. They cost a small fortune however.

May I also suggest two camera that are a bit different but may be worth looking at, well I would were I in your position.

Panasonic HPX3100
Sony F3 (the caveat though being that you would get an external recorder nanoflash / ki pro mini) to record I frame 4:2:2 as a minimum.
 
Noel Evans said:
George there are 2/3" cine lenses. They cost a small fortune however.

May I also suggest two camera that are a bit different but may be worth looking at, well I would were I in your position.

Panasonic HPX3100
Sony F3 (the caveat though being that you would get an external recorder nanoflash / ki pro mini) to record I frame 4:2:2 as a minimum.
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Sorry, not on NGS's list.

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Barry_Green said:
The Sony's a video camera. The Red One isn't. I'd think for the purposes you're describing, the Sony would be the much better buy, although the PDW700 doesn't offer 24p by itself; you may want to look at the PDW800. I think there may be a 24p upgrade for the 700, but I haven't paid attention.

I don't think you're going to be able to use S16 lenses on the PDW series though. Those are designed for single-sensor film style cameras, and won't work in a three-chip system like the PDW700.
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Why would you need 24p for broadcast, especially wildlife or natural history... "filmlook" for TV was traditionally shot at 30p, so 60p I would think is fine.
 
starcentral said:
Why would you need 24p for broadcast
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Because every primetime drama is shot in 24p... 60p is for the "live" look, so if you're shooting "The View", then yes, use 60p. If you're shooting "House", use 24p.

If doing sports, always 60p. If doing a movie about sports, 24p.

If shooting nature, it depends on what you want it to look like. If you want it to look like "looking through a window", then use 60p. If you want it to look like a movie or like it was shot on film, use 24p.
 
Barry, George is not shooting "primetime drama" as his post clearly states. George is shooting documentaries and content for history channel, and other speciality channels. 24p is far too much a cinematic look for this, he can easily shoot 60p and convert to 30p to retain a more subtle filmlook without worrying about 24p. Many TV shows show on video, or even shot on film, were done so at 30p for ease of transfer to the 60i television standard. As I said, it still provides a "filmic" motion look, but not as extreme as 24p.

Too many people are caught up on "24p" these days.........
 
I'm not telling him he has to use 24p. But the guy's been looking at the Red One, the Red Scarlet, all sorts of digi-cine cameras. It would seem reasonable to expect that he'd be interested in the 24p feature, and if he wants it, and is considering a PDW700 (which, at least initially, was a 60i-only camera) I figured it would be appropriate to point out to him that IF 24p was desirable for his purposes, that he better research the 700 before buying it, or just look at the PDW800 which I'm certain does have it.
 
There have been no situations, since we got our Red, where we actually miss our old "Video camera". If you know how to use it and rig it light it will give you head and shoulders better results than any other camera, with a close contender being the Alexa.
 
Noel Evans said:
NG's list? National Geographics List? Both new cameras well above any "required" specs (well the f3 will be to external recording device). Is red on it?
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The RED-One is on the "top" of their list.

I've already decided on going with the RED-One, mainly because of FUTURE archivability. The Sony PDW700 footage may be fine now, but what about 5 years from now? I doubt it. 4K from the Red will be good for many, many years to come, and so will the camera.

Thanks to everyone for their help and advise.

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