RED Komodo to start limited shipping soon for $6k

"there are many things that people can do quickly that smart machines cannot. Natural language is beyond deep learning; new situations baffle artificial intelligences, like cows brought up short at a cattle grid. None of these shortcomings is likely to be solved soon. Once you’ve seen you’ve seen it, you can’t un-see it: deep learning, now the dominant technique in artificial intelligence, will not lead to an AI that abstractly reasons and generalizes about the world. By itself, it is unlikely to automate ordinary human activities."

https://www.wired.com/story/greedy-brittle-opaque-and-shallow-the-downsides-to-deep-learning/
 
Yeah, studios have been using robotics since the early-mid 90's. Now a lot of them just use cheap, tiny PTZ cameras instead of actual full robotic studio peds with studio cams and studio/box lenses. Although, in a way, it was kinda cool to watch those big beasts move around remotely with no body touching them. I did a shoot for Sony at a local TV station that is a "Sony Shop" a few years ago. I knew the station well. I did my internship there in the mid-90's and started my career in TV, stringing for them. I didn't really watch their news anymore, but had seen it recently and thought just how bad it looked on air. When I walked into the studio that day, it all made perfect sense, then. The studio, which was actually one of the first to go robotic back in the 90's was all tiny PTZ cams, now, mostly centrally located in the middle of the studio with no one but talent in there and they were running their own prompter and the control room that used to be full during any broadcast only had two people in there with the director calling the show, punching the shots, controlling audio and graphics. And probably rolling the video, too. In a top 25 market.

I'd like to think I have some job security with the physicality and mobility needed to do a lot of my kind of shooting, but the appreciation of being able to set-up and light and control the natural light almost anywhere in the field, to make talent and the background look good is all but gone today. It used to be demanded and required, now the producer or the talent themselves with a cell phone provides them with results that are deemed sufficient.
 
ahalpert said:
"there are many things that people can do quickly that smart machines cannot. Natural language is beyond deep learning; new situations baffle artificial intelligences, like cows brought up short at a cattle grid. None of these shortcomings is likely to be solved soon. Once you’ve seen you’ve seen it, you can’t un-see it: deep learning, now the dominant technique in artificial intelligence, will not lead to an AI that abstractly reasons and generalizes about the world. By itself, it is unlikely to automate ordinary human activities."

https://www.wired.com/story/greedy-brittle-opaque-and-shallow-the-downsides-to-deep-learning/
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I'm sure he's very smart - but FWIW, that's an opinion piece written by a senior partner at Flagship Pioneering, whom appear to be more in favor of machine learning.

EDIT: I accidentally combined the two. Should be just machine learning. That may have thrown you off.
 
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NorBro said:
I'm sure he's very smart - but FWIW, that's an opinion piece written by a senior partner at Flagship Pioneering, whom appear to be more in favor of machine/deep learning.
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Doesn't that make his argument more convincing, not less?
 
Run&Gun said:
I'd like to think I have some job security with the physicality and mobility needed to do a lot of my kind of shooting, but the appreciation of being able to set-up and light and control the natural light almost anywhere in the field, to make talent and the background look good is all but gone today. It used to be demanded and required, now the producer or the talent themselves with a cell phone provides them with results that are deemed sufficient.
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Doesn't the trend to lower standards have more to do with media market monopolization than technology? If viewers have options, won't they go with the better-looking one?
 
I meant selling his own personal understandings.

From my limited research, deep learning is the engine behind Artificial Intelligence. Machine learning is similar, but different.

So he is naturally arguing that deep learning has limits because the company he works for is in favor of machine learning. Deep learning is the more complicated evolution of machine learning. Something that may be limited to him right now (or even in the future).

If you agree with his own understanding of what AI, deep learning, machine learning - any method of learning - mean to him and his personal opinions about it then yes, his argument is more convincing to you.

Is their an ulterior motive? Probably not. But do you understand my concern?
 
At the end of the day, these are all very much related.

I think the ultimate question is how much anyone thinks robots and machines will really learn and understand and do things how we want them to do them.
 
My AI didn't catch my grammatical error above so I'm done with it. :crybaby:

[there not their]
 
James0b57 said:
On the DSMC2, they have a pre-record, so, as long as one has the batteries, the camera can be pre-recording the whole time. Sort of like going back in time.

So, just depends on the working style.


When i shot DSLR, i liked how quickly those cameras turned, but that mirror slap killed the moment in non-fiction, because the people around knew that i was about to record and they all changed their behavior once they heard the sound.

Would be nice to have instant on cameras though. I definitely hate the boot times on a Red with the 2TB mag. But it isn’t a deal breaker until a better and cheaper camera exists. At this time Arri has similar boot times. Sony Venice is quicker, but it costs $60K for a complete package. A Red is like $30K depending on which model and kit you get. Sometimes a lot less if one goes Dragon, and now Komodo.

The C500ii is an interesting camera, and overall i really like it, but i didn’t get the same image quality as the Gemini. They were close, but the Gemini had half to a whole stop better DR, colours seemed better through the range, and the out of camera look felt more “movie-esque” straight from camera. The Canon looked great, but had a slightly more video edge to it. Either camera is great, and the fast boot time on the Canon is a big plus. However, the Red’s having the pre-record makes up for the slow boot times in some situations. And i suppose Arri is just above reprove.
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Canon C500MKII has pre-record... Boots in 3.5 seconds, has ND, great colour science, XLRs. It's not perfect, far from it, but it has all the essential things a modern, large-format, mid-range camera should have. As do cameras from Sony, Panasonic. I'm sure if Arri produced a mid-tier camera it would have those things too. I've shot on Red cameras since the days Red One, it's good to see Red producing another lower-cost model, but for me, Komodo is a bit of an enigma. Maybe, if I use it I'll change my mind, but I won't be swayed by decals or marketing aimed at bearded, tattoed wannabes.
 
Liam Hall said:
...but I won't be swayed by decals or marketing aimed at bearded, tattoed wannabes.
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Who are all these people being swayed by custom colours? I think most of those people are already using and enjoying RED's for work. The custom colours are a bonus. For everyone outside the RED eco system, it is likely just a big turn off. I mean, $1K for a custom colour, sounds a lot like fanboy-ism. But it could also be, that these are small batch cameras, and that labor brings up the cost. Also COVID. It also means, that anyone who has one a few months ahead of any one else is getting free promotional for their own business. And they will be the first to hit the ground running with Komodo jobs. They'll literally profit from that $1K extra. Custom colour or no.
 
I'd pay $1k extra to get the camera in a less-reflective finish and not look like a clown for the rest of my shoots with it.

Do you really think there will be specific demand for Komodo right off the bat? Maybe it finds a niche as a little crash cam and some folks in LA know of it. In myexperience, my clients discover new cameras 6+ months after they're released, even if I'm pushing them on them
 
ahalpert said:
I'd pay $1k extra to get the camera in a less-reflective finish and not look like a clown for the rest of my shoots with it.

Do you really think there will be specific demand for Komodo right off the bat? Maybe it finds a niche as a little crash cam and some folks in LA know of it. In myexperience, my clients discover new cameras 6+ months after they're released, even if I'm pushing them on them
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Yeah, some people hear about these cameras and while they are hot will rent them, to consider a future purchase even. Or sometimes a client will have a shoot coming up and the Komodo ends up being the perfect tool. Global shutter for an Action film shot on RED??? those handheld fight scenes in the trendy night club with strobing lights? they are going to bounce on that Komodo. Have a car mount scene? Ok, not only the joy of having every passing object being straight instead of leaning, but also the thing is lighter weight and as hot swappable batteries.

This is not just a smaller RED, it is a game changing RED. Global Shutter does not exist in such a small form factor yet.
 
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Interesting. So you think global shutter is the big selling point of the camera and I cannot disagree.

(And compare it to what we see coming out of 1DXmk3!)
 
Global shutter is HUGE!

The fact that the camera is so smaller, is.. HUGER.
 
I'd like to have a global shutter in my cameras, that said, I've never had a single client ask me about global shutter. Not once.

Also, I don't think early adopters will benefit as I just don't see clients being interested. So many cameras are good these days, you've really got to have something extra special to turn their heads these days. Bearded, tattooed guys, and girls on Instagram though...

Oh, and by the way, I like tattoos, beards and girls, but I'm sure you know what I mean:-)
 
Liam Hall said:
I'd like to have a global shutter in my cameras, that said, I've never had a single client ask me about global shutter. Not once.

Also, I don't think early adopters will benefit as I just don't see clients being interested. So many cameras are good these days, you've really got to have something extra special to turn their heads these days. Bearded, tattooed guys, and girls on Instagram though...
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Early adopters won't, but pre-adopters will. No benefit to owning an affordable camera that anyone can buy. And at that point, the $1K for a paint job will be silly. But getting in on the first dozen or so, allows you to meet people that are interested at the very least. And it is almost free advertising for your brand if you are one of the few sharing thoughts on the Komodo. Although, most of the people with a Komodo right now are already successful in their own right. Some are crazy successful. I think some of them made a small film Called Matrix 4, or something. So, in those situations, it is more that they are helping the Komodo.
 
Those pre-adopters as you call them are just part of the marketing strategy. It's about creating a buzz. Which clearly works.

One of my camera dealers sells Red and was salivating at the prospect of Komodo being released into the wild. No doubt it will be a hit with shooters of various types. I still don't expect a single call asking me to shoot with one.
 
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