RED Komodo to start limited shipping soon for $6k

[Guest]

That live feed felt a lot like a DVX thread on video, even has the OG Dvxuser, Jarred on there. a bunch of people that love what cameras can do, and willing to share openly about their observations and experiences. Is also very interesting, now that the company is run by Jarred, it is the same person that started this forum, so there is a direct relation with this forum and the Komodo, by that association. If they make a blue version, I'll consider it DVXuser Blue. Haha

 

[Liam Hall]

If I'm smart, I'll sit on my hands for a while and see what is actually making people money.

I say this to myself every year. Never happens.

 

[ahalpert]

Yes, fair point. Honestly, I might not sound like it, but I'm trying to like this camera as I'll be in the market for a small form camera when production gets back up to speed. ProRes and global shutter are two very strong selling points - but I still need convincing.

What's the use case for the small camera you need? I would think that having a built-in EVF a la mirrorless cameras would be clutch if one needs a dinky run and gun covert package, and not just a small camera for rigging in corners or on a gimbal or just small handheld. (They talk about shooting right from the top monitor but I'm only about 15% sold on that)

Komodo does look pretty dope I have to say

 

[Guest]

I have the S1, not the S1H. And numerous other Panny and Canon cameras but yes FS7 and S1 are my most recent and high-specced.

I would only buy another camera for

1. Making more money
2. Better image quality

Obviously, these are not mutually exclusive.

Making more money could be a direct upgrade to FS7 (FX9 or C300III). Or it could be getting a Sony B cam (A7SIII or FX6) to appeal to clients who want matching camera brands. Or it could be a RED Komodo if there is demand for it in the same sector. There's no one size fits all camera and I can't buy them all.

As for image quality improvement - it could be more dynamic range than I've got, RAW and/or 12-bit codecs, good autofocus, global shutter... It would have to be enough of an upgrade in IQ over what I've got already to merit buying now and not waiting for the next generation of whatever.

I've done this dance many times before. I got the FS7 because my clients like it (a belated smart business move on my part, whereas I usually chase IQ and make poor business moves) and I got the S1 because it has an adequate codec and i needed a low-light beast.

If I'm smart, I'll sit on my hands for a while and see what is actually making people money.

(Plus, if I end up making a movie in Unreal Engine and not live photography, it would make loads more sense to invest in computers than cameras at this point...)

Komodo gets my blood pumping. Saving up for a C300III or FX9 might be a better business move. Or just pairing an A7SIII with my FS7 might be good business, especially since the A7SII remains in demand in a certain sector until this very day. But could Canon C300III/R5 dethrone the Sony FS7/A7SII combo?

Oh cool, yeah, I couldn't tell which way you were leaning at first, but that all makes a lot of sense. Personally, the Komodo is a no brainer for my setup. And I don't need it to cover all the bases, and it's intended uses are exactly how I would use it (sans the stitching images from multiple units thing)

It will be interesting to see where Canon and Sony fall in the next year or so, because they both hit home runs. And the mirrorless world just keeps inching closer. Panasoinc's got a few sleeper hits.

 

[AndreeOnline]

All of them mentioned it is a league above BMP6K.

So, you can extrapolate from that.

Only if I consider their loose statements to carry any weight whatsoever. Which I don't.

That is not to say that I disregard their observations as falsehoods or lies. It's just that it doesn't mean anything until they put up some pictures and point out what they are seeing. THEN we can agree/disagree. Which we will, since we all look at it for different perspectives: practicality, quality, price, business ethics or what have you... and of course what we are looking for in an image: some want soft/diffused, some want edgy and sharp, or at least 'detailed'. People with different ideals will never agree, and that is fine!

We've all seen some comparisons on YouTube to higher end REDs than the Komodo. To me there has been no meaningful quality advantage, so far, in RED footage that I've seen. Then again, I also don't trust YouTubers much when it comes to deliver absolute truths.

But there are some guys I trust more, because I've heard them talk about the image pipeline or seen them work with various footage in Resolve. One such test is this P6K to Alexa conversion:

This is a silver car in the sun with shadowy trees in the background. You can look at overall contrast or hues and saturation of various colors. The nature of this Resolve PowerGrade is that it's not a "lets-match-this-specific-shot", but an actual conversion that maps any image that was exposed correctly (as in mid grey, NOT ETTR).

I'd like the Komodo gang to post something like this, preferably in raw, and THEN explain how the image is superior.

 

[ahalpert]

Oh cool, yeah, I couldn't tell which way you were leaning at first, but that all makes a lot of sense. Personally, the Komodo is a no brainer for my setup. And I don't need it to cover all the bases, and it's intended uses are exactly how I would use it (sans the stitching images from multiple units thing)

It will be interesting to see where Canon and Sony fall in the next year or so, because they both hit home runs. And the mirrorless world just keeps inching closer. Panasoinc's got a few sleeper hits.

Agreed - Komodo is the way to go for you

There's a possibility that no new camera will make me more money because most of my business is relationship-based now and because if I want to step out on new business I might be better renting whatever tool best fits the job.

Though I would really like to start shooting everything RAW if I could.

Komodo is definitely most exciting to me (assuming the IQ checks out, and so far so good). Actually, the MAVO Edge is most exciting, but MAVO is not a known/trusted company and I think redcode might be better than prores RAW anyway.

If any of these cameras generate enough buzz with the people who do the hiring, they instantly become a good investment. I apply to gigs thru a few sites, but it usually takes a year for the hirers to all become aware of new cameras (although I bet Komodo will instantly replace BMD as the camera of choice for no-budget indies)

 

[Guest]

Global Shutter with Helium Level Dynamic range. very little CMOS smear and color shift into the shadows?

Forget no budgets, any budget, any shooter, anything could potentially like the image quality from this thing. It won't be replacing more purpose built cameras in their respective fields, but the Komodo is doing things that just doesn't exist in any other camera.

 

[Guest]

I'd like the Komodo gang to post something like this, preferably in raw, and THEN explain how the image is superior.

Yeah, will be interesting as more footage starts getting uploaded.

I'll say, in meeting and talking with Phil Holland, he is honest and candid about things, and while he may have different tastes from you or I, he knows image quality. If he is genuinely excited about the Komodo, that is a good sign.

 

[ahalpert]

And at an agreeable price

I just meant that the little indy posts I see request pockets and ursa minis. They would probably request full reds if they werent so expensive, so it's possible that Komodo shooters will align with their budget.

But yeah, I'd much rather shoot with Komodo than fx9/C300III. But not having built-in xlrs or nds or more compressed codecs, etc, makes it less suited to some of that stuff and then less likely to even become familiar to those clients. And then there's good continuous AF, which has its place

 

[Guest]

And at an agreeable price

I just meant that the little indy posts I see request pockets and ursa minis. They would probably request full reds if they werent so expensive, so it's possible that Komodo shooters will align with their budget.

But yeah, I'd much rather shoot with Komodo than fx9/C300III. But not having built-in xlrs or nds or more compressed codecs, etc, makes it less suited to some of that stuff and then less likely to even become familiar to those clients. And then there's good continuous AF, which has its place

The Komodo does ProRes. Just not at the same time as recode. requires a reboot to switch between recording formats.


And, yeah, sorry, didn't mean to take your comment to of context, I can see that lower budgets will be Komodos for some. Some people still prefer the BM color science though. I don't. Haha, actually, come to think of it, the bmpcc6k has a few of my irrational dislikes:
- EF mount, don't know why, but I dislike the EF mount and EF lenses.
- smaller than s35. I can go bigger, and I like s35 better than ff35, but I don't like going smaller than s35.
- the skin tones are a little bit too homogenous. The Sony's are doing this too. I think Red, Canon, Arri, and Varicam are better.
- orange teal bias. maybe it is just a teal bias in the blues, but I prefer a more neutral blue SOOC.
- yellow greens. a lot of the foliage is more yellow than in reality. This can be a good stylistic choice, but I dislike it.
- the tactile feel is a little lower quality than I'd like, but given the price, I really think they did well.
- touch screen bias
- really wide for what it is, and yet, the HDMI is still in that spot. such is life.
- HDMI
- fanboys


A bunch of little quibbles. But at the end of the day, it is a very usable camera that gets great image quality. I could adapt my Rokkors and Leica R's to EF mount, I suppose. And there is that speed booster thing. Maybe I should just sell my Red and get two Bmpcc6k's. They do have the same image quality as an Alexa, as many online tests have shown.

 

[Guest]

Only if I consider their loose statements to carry any weight whatsoever. Which I don't.

That is not to say that I disregard their observations as falsehoods or lies. It's just that it doesn't mean anything until they put up some pictures and point out what they are seeing. THEN we can agree/disagree. Which we will, since we all look at it for different perspectives: practicality, quality, price, business ethics or what have you... and of course what we are looking for in an image: some want soft/diffused, some want edgy and sharp, or at least 'detailed'. People with different ideals will never agree, and that is fine!

We've all seen some comparisons on YouTube to higher end REDs than the Komodo. To me there has been no meaningful quality advantage, so far, in RED footage that I've seen. Then again, I also don't trust YouTubers much when it comes to deliver absolute truths.

But there are some guys I trust more, because I've heard them talk about the image pipeline or seen them work with various footage in Resolve. One such test is this P6K to Alexa conversion:
(IMAGES REMOVED FOR THE QUOTES)
This is a silver car in the sun with shadowy trees in the background. You can look at overall contrast or hues and saturation of various colors. The nature of this Resolve PowerGrade is that it's not a "lets-match-this-specific-shot", but an actual conversion that maps any image that was exposed correctly (as in mid grey, NOT ETTR).

If it weren't for EF mount or the smaller sensor, I might have a Bmcc6K by now. It does appear to have great image quality, and $2K isn't much by todays standards. It is cool to have a little Alexa in the hand.

 

[ahalpert]

Hmm it looks like ProRes 422 takes about 2x as much data as XAVC-I....not as much of a space savings as I thought....maybe the codec is marketable for the same use case....certainly it should be faster to edit with

 

[Liam Hall]

What's the use case for the small camera you need? I would think that having a built-in EVF a la mirrorless cameras would be clutch if one needs a dinky run and gun covert package, and not just a small camera for rigging in corners or on a gimbal or just small handheld. (They talk about shooting right from the top monitor but I'm only about 15% sold on that)

Komodo does look pretty dope I have to say

Mainly as a B-camera to my C500MKII. I agree re EVFs, shooting from monitors isn't a great solution most of the time, fine for B-cam/gimbal/car etc though.

 

[ahalpert]

Mainly as a B-camera to my C500MKII. I agree re EVFs, shooting from monitors isn't a great solution most of the time, fine for B-cam/gimbal/car etc though.

Canon is dying for you to get an R5. Not interested?

 

[Guest]

Hmm it looks like ProRes 422 takes about 2x as much data as XAVC-I....not as much of a space savings as I thought....maybe the codec is marketable for the same use case....certainly it should be faster to edit with

what about ProRes LT?

 

[ahalpert]

what about ProRes LT?

Does it have it? I read somewhere it was only 422HQ and 422

LT would further change the equation. But those people would never be happy without XLR in and even if you rig it to take XLR in, they will think of the camera as lacking it (and not totally incorrectly since it will never be as painless and solid as having them built-in). Hence C300III and C500II are possibly better one size fits all cameras, though more expensive and less exciting in some ways

 

[Guest]

Does it have it? I read somewhere it was only 422HQ and 422

LT would further change the equation. But those people would never be happy without XLR in and even if you rig it to take XLR in, they will think of the camera as lacking it (and not totally incorrectly since it will never be as painless and solid as having them built-in). Hence C300III and C500II are possibly better one size fits all cameras, though more expensive and less exciting in some ways

Ah, I don't know. I mean, really, we can't count on much of anything being set in stone. LT could be a future firmware thing. Yet at the same time, the Komodo is not recording proxies, as the ProRes is a separate boot up altogether. So, maybe they won't included LT anytime soon.

 

[AndreeOnline]

It does appear to have great image quality, and $2K isn't much by todays standards.

I simply look at it from the bottom up: "OK, so $2k get's me this". That's my baseline.

Then the question becomes if an additional $2k, $4k, $8k or even $20k is worth it.

The answer depends a lot if you're just starting out, or if you are tied up in an existing system already. Perhaps you're delivering to someone with strict format demands, or need a certain form factor? All these things are often more important than the camera itself, almost to the point that discussing the camera in isolation is a futile exercise and pass-time.

 

[Liam Hall]

Canon is dying for you to get an R5. Not interested?

I'll take a look for sure.

 

[Guest]

I simply look at it from the bottom up: "OK, so $2k get's me this". That's my baseline.

Then the question becomes if an additional $2k, $4k, $8k or even $20k is worth it.

The answer depends a lot if you're just starting out, or if you are tied up in an existing system already. Perhaps you're delivering to someone with strict format demands, or need a certain form factor? All these things are often more important than the camera itself, almost to the point that discussing the camera in isolation is a futile exercise and pass-time.

Ha, I was trying to make a related point, but couldn't think of how to phrase it, as I should be asleep. But you basically covered it from a different point of view.