Brilliant. I hadn't seen that so thanks ahalpert. Of course, there's always the danger that older lenses, as great as they were, won't hold up quite as we'd hoped but certainly something I'd love to explore. Thanks again.
RED Komodo to start limited shipping soon for $6k
- Thread starter ahalpert
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Brilliant. I hadn't seen that so thanks ahalpert. Of course, there's always the danger that older lenses, as great as they were, won't hold up quite as we'd hoped but certainly something I'd love to explore. Thanks again.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
And I think they make the adapter for every mirrorless mount (RF, E, Z, L).
My experience with vintage lenses is that the detail can be impressive, but the coatings are much less effective than modern coatings. With my old Leica R and M lenses, the contrast falls apart with even a moderate amount of direct light coming down the barrel. But modern lenses have gotten so good at controlling it that they can be boring, and many lens manufacturers now offer a line of lenses that are more prone to flare.
Here's a review of that focal reducer with video samples towards the end: https://youtu.be/URZBQvzBy98
My experience with vintage lenses is that the detail can be impressive, but the coatings are much less effective than modern coatings. With my old Leica R and M lenses, the contrast falls apart with even a moderate amount of direct light coming down the barrel. But modern lenses have gotten so good at controlling it that they can be boring, and many lens manufacturers now offer a line of lenses that are more prone to flare.
Here's a review of that focal reducer with video samples towards the end: https://youtu.be/URZBQvzBy98
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Thinking about the marriage of camera design with specific shooting style... Komodo seems excellently designed for a crash cam (small, global shutter, rugged)
EXCEPT it's not a slow-motion camera! Only 4k60p with a crop. Doesn't that seem such an obvious ask for your crash cam? Maybe RED found Canon's lost cripple hammer and put it to use.
EXCEPT it's not a slow-motion camera! Only 4k60p with a crop. Doesn't that seem such an obvious ask for your crash cam? Maybe RED found Canon's lost cripple hammer and put it to use.
Run&Gun
Veteran
If you’ve read the threads over on RED, that’s exactly what it was designed for: crash-cam/b/c-cam. Honestly, I’ve seen way more “crash cam” footage in real-time than slow-mo. 60 frames yields 2.5x slow-mo for 24fps base(and it goes higher if you drop the rez). My F55 shoots 4K60 & 2K/HD 180fps in-camera and 240fps w/R5/R7 recorder and I rarely go over 60. I bet I can count on one hand, maybe two, the times I’ve shot higher than 72 in five years with it.
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I am curious about this. You have said it multiple times.
In all the films i’ve seen, a crash cam is generallly no more than 48frames. They’re cameras that get into the action and stay in real time.
Any camera that is far back enough to observe something in slow motion is generally no a “gopro”, or at least doesn’t need to be.
Then there is the fact that the camera can do 120fps in 2K, which is not that bad.
I would argue that the camera should have higher frame rates, but they went with a power sipping camera that can stay on for hours on end. So that offsets some of the cripple aspect in my mind. I’d rather have a crash cam that i am NOT constantly changing batteries and is small enough to get into the action, than some power hog that is too big, but can go higher than 60fps 4K...
My assumption is that most people complaining about the Komodo are people wanting it to be an A cam, or a Phantom high speed camera.
If you have any sample shots of 120fps with an action cam, please post it. And i am not talking about the wide shot of the building exploding, because those shots can be done with an A cam. Ofcourse, don’t get me wrong, higher frame rate options are nice and would be used, I’m just struggling to recall any shots done with an action cam that were done higher than 48fps. In part because of the realtime nature of getting thrown into the action.
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We used to get some slomo Broll with the F55 for sports features. One shot that took 2seconds now fills a glorious 5-10seconds of B-roll. Haha. Art meets laziness. Editors loved that sports slomo! Not gonna lie, the F55 looked right at home on sports doc style shoots. The inage was so perfect for that, and the camera was just so ready for anything.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
It's easy to imagine a slow-motion shot from an action cam perspective. Maybe 60fps is enough.
When James mentioned why his bigger RED is still relevant, it was for higher framerates. Making me think they would undercut their range too much with higher frame rates on Komodo.
Yes, sipping power is nice, but one can use a larger battery.
Looking at fast/furious scenes, sure most is real-time but then there's often slow mo on the flip/crash.
Just saying - a crash cam is designed to capture very fast-moving action that will probably be slow mo'd
https://youtu.be/liiNCcZVA6Q
When James mentioned why his bigger RED is still relevant, it was for higher framerates. Making me think they would undercut their range too much with higher frame rates on Komodo.
Yes, sipping power is nice, but one can use a larger battery.
Looking at fast/furious scenes, sure most is real-time but then there's often slow mo on the flip/crash.
Just saying - a crash cam is designed to capture very fast-moving action that will probably be slow mo'd
https://youtu.be/liiNCcZVA6Q
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But once you have a big battery involved and slomo, then why not just use the already small DSMC? I am just curious why a “gopro” has to be in slomo.
Eventually, would hope that one of the DSMC3 “A” cams is global shutter and slomo, but wondering why the low cost stunt cam, the body cam, the crash cam, needs to be 120fps 6K? Seems like that would up the costs and make the “expendable” crash cam more expensive, larger (for cooling), and more power hungry (again making it larger, or requiring auxilary power cabled in).
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....and most of those slomo shots are pretty far back. The up close actual crash cam stuff is pretty much real time. The slomo stuff is meant to let you see what is happening, and those shots tend to be slightly farther back. Filming a crash is not the same thing as actually crashing the camera into something.
Now, i don’t mean to impose some artistic rule, just saying that smacking into something in real time is generally more impactful in real time and 2x slomo. If it is done in 3x’s or more slomo, not sure that is as commonly used. Seeing something slowly making it’s way towards the camera sounds more beautiful than “action-y”. If that makes sense.
But yeah, if you can find any crash cam footage in slomo, please post, i didn’t have time to go through the whole FF crash series, but in the couple minutes i saw that crash cams were real time, and wider further back angles were slomo. Not sure how much that was technical limits or artistic choice, but that seemed to be the pattern. But the Fast and Furious video you linked proves my point, rather than yours.
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Run&Gun
Veteran
Generally speaking, I think “crash-cam” footage is more impactful (no pun intended... or is it?) in real-time. Yes, I’ve seen crash-cam type shots in slow-mo that are used effectively to emphasize the moment, like the character is flashing back and reliving the moment or some type of heightened sense of awareness and analysis happens at that moment, but eight or nine times out of 10, real-time is it.
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We both said it, so i think it passes. Either that, or we’re both so far down the dad-joke vortex that we can’t help ourselves.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Haha dad-joke vortex
This isn't crash cam footage from jarred but it's supposed to illustrate the usefulness of a small camera with global shutter, and I'm very very used to car footage like this suddenly ramping into slow motion as a car makes a hard rubber-burning turn: https://www.instagram.com/p/CBdf1MFBzsb/?igshid=t6gp01m0izu
A crash cam slow motion shot example I can't find right now is where the camera is car-mounted and you see a piece of the car in the foreground as its flying through the air and the background is spinning and pieces of glass are flying off the car in slow motion.
And I mean - gopros. The hero 8 can shoot 240fps in 1080p. Surely there's a reason for it
This isn't crash cam footage from jarred but it's supposed to illustrate the usefulness of a small camera with global shutter, and I'm very very used to car footage like this suddenly ramping into slow motion as a car makes a hard rubber-burning turn: https://www.instagram.com/p/CBdf1MFBzsb/?igshid=t6gp01m0izu
A crash cam slow motion shot example I can't find right now is where the camera is car-mounted and you see a piece of the car in the foreground as its flying through the air and the background is spinning and pieces of glass are flying off the car in slow motion.
And I mean - gopros. The hero 8 can shoot 240fps in 1080p. Surely there's a reason for it
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Anyway, i think a lot of people keep thinking the Komodo is an inexpensive A-cam from Red, instead of it really being an expensive C-cam from Red. Works for sticking into the action or having a Matric Bullet time array more feasible, but the cost definitely adds up.
Now, it is still a good image, as that is the whole point. It was made to replace all those 7D and GoPro angles with higher quality footage that could be used for longer than 20frames in an edit.
The off-shoot benefit, is that now anyone can jump into a smaller, more economical, and better battery life Red. So, people can make it their main camera. And to me, that is cool. I am pretty stoked on the idea that i now have a global shutter companion to the Gemini that is relatively affordable. But by the time i fully rig the two cameras, i can guarantee the Ranger body will be smaller and cleaner build than some frenkenrigged Komodo. So, i would keep the Komodo as an action cam, and not bog it down with rigging, personally. But for those that want to, the Komodo is a nice option.
The thing that gets me, is that the Komodo is possibly the most modern global shutter camera available anywhere at any price. It looks to be beating the F55 in dynamic range and colour science. So, beyond all the other stuff.... just purely from an Image Quality stand point, i am excited about the Komodo.
Now, it is still a good image, as that is the whole point. It was made to replace all those 7D and GoPro angles with higher quality footage that could be used for longer than 20frames in an edit.
The off-shoot benefit, is that now anyone can jump into a smaller, more economical, and better battery life Red. So, people can make it their main camera. And to me, that is cool. I am pretty stoked on the idea that i now have a global shutter companion to the Gemini that is relatively affordable. But by the time i fully rig the two cameras, i can guarantee the Ranger body will be smaller and cleaner build than some frenkenrigged Komodo. So, i would keep the Komodo as an action cam, and not bog it down with rigging, personally. But for those that want to, the Komodo is a nice option.
The thing that gets me, is that the Komodo is possibly the most modern global shutter camera available anywhere at any price. It looks to be beating the F55 in dynamic range and colour science. So, beyond all the other stuff.... just purely from an Image Quality stand point, i am excited about the Komodo.
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All of those shots could have been done on film or Alexa SXT. I don’t see the need for anything lighter than a DSMC for those shots.
The fact that you are saying “surely” means that it is just an option. We’re hard pressed to find or even recall a slowmo crash cam shot.
The Komodo is not designed to be a slomo capture device, it is designed to be the highest quality footage in the smallest form factor that Red can currently make. Watch the movie “Pain and Gain” with the Rock and Marky Mark. Now imagine all the GoPro and 7D footage not looking like crap?
You keep trying to make the Komodo something it isn’t. Maybe Red will make the DSMC3 smaller than the DSMC2 and then you’ll get all those frame rates. But until then, buy a GoPro if you need 240fps a crash cam. Because something tells me, you would be throwing a $7000 camera into an exploding car. You really want a $7000 Red that you can use as a slomo capable A-cam.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I'm going to keep playing devil's advocate.
I'm not sure Komodo can replace gopro. In the opening scene of pain and gain, Marky mark is doing sit ups with a go pro on his chest or stomach. Gopro weighs a quarter pound and Komodo weighs 2 pounds plus lens and battery plus is larger
I'm not sure Komodo can replace gopro. In the opening scene of pain and gain, Marky mark is doing sit ups with a go pro on his chest or stomach. Gopro weighs a quarter pound and Komodo weighs 2 pounds plus lens and battery plus is larger
NorBro
Major Contributor
People do sit-ups holding 20lb plates on their chests.
In general, the idea of buying a $6000-$7000 Komodo for a crash cam that mostly will be talked about on a forum and rarely ever used as one is just nuts.
Whatever the camera's purpose is is irrelevant because 99% interested in this system see this as an A cam and their very own [first] RED camera. The 1% consist of existing RED owners that will truly use it as a B or C camera.
If anyone here really gets to the point of having cars flip in their movies, maybe start with a BMPC or two for $500 from eBay.
In general, the idea of buying a $6000-$7000 Komodo for a crash cam that mostly will be talked about on a forum and rarely ever used as one is just nuts.
Whatever the camera's purpose is is irrelevant because 99% interested in this system see this as an A cam and their very own [first] RED camera. The 1% consist of existing RED owners that will truly use it as a B or C camera.
If anyone here really gets to the point of having cars flip in their movies, maybe start with a BMPC or two for $500 from eBay.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Right but if they wanted higher IQ from a camera they could have rigged to his torso, there were many options available at the time including the BMPCC
Maybe the gopro look is intentional
Also, some actors are weak and will still be asked to carry a camera or have it mounted to them
Maybe the gopro look is intentional
Also, some actors are weak and will still be asked to carry a camera or have it mounted to them