RED Komodo to start limited shipping soon for $6k

ahalpert said:
Komodo footage:

Looks like more than enough DR to shoot into a sunset and retain some detail in the foreground: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTmX-uxshpg

Here it is kicking ass on a Ronin-s inside a car: https://youtu.be/o1acTyXvF-U
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When they first announce global shutter, I really wasn't expecting that good of DR in a sub $10K camera. Alright. Enjoing those straight lines and spinning car wheels. something soothing about not seeing jello. A tiny bit of jello may even seem more natural in a a sense. Does any camera manufacturer make the scan bottom to top? That way a passing car leans forward with speed, and buildings and electric poles lean back passively as they are being passed. But top down scan seems more unnatural. Of corse anything over 25ms is going to look unnatural, I am talking more in the 7-21ms range. Anyone else feel that way?

maybe I have it backwards
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:) lol

Yeah there's there's something unusual about not seeing any jello, but I think I'm just not used to it. It's certainly better than noticing it!

Maybe the issue is that I'm staring so hard at the backgrounds looking for it so it feels weird.

GS is very cool but I don't mind a fast rolling shutter.

What gets me excited for this camera is redcode RAW for $6k with this much DR and small enough to go on my Ronin-S, plus with the RED brand.

UMP G2 is too big for that and has a less respected brand.

I might feel like saying to hell with the Sony, business moves be damned. Still, early days yet
 
ahalpert said:
:) lol

Yeah there's there's something unusual about not seeing any jello, but I think I'm just not used to it. It's certainly better than noticing it!

Maybe the issue is that I'm staring so hard at the backgrounds looking for it so it feels weird.

GS is very cool but I don't mind a fast rolling shutter.

What gets me excited for this camera is redcode RAW for $6k with this much DR and small enough to go on my Ronin-S, plus with the RED brand.

UMP G2 is too big for that and has a less respected brand.

I might feel like saying to hell with the Sony, business moves be damned. Still, early days yet
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And you need two Black magics to have the confidence of one of the other brands. I'm sure there are those that are fine, but even if the camera still gets an image, the top handle starts getting lose, and yeah, you probably know. that just defeats the purpose of a "bang for buck" camera for me.

The black Komodo won't be out for at least two months, And then everyone else is going to have fall announcements. Who knows if business will have picked up, and then winter will be dead, and then next year early new announcements. Seems safe to wait. Fs7 will still be King till years end. But Komodo could be that fun thing. I guess only you will know. For me, it is just way too perfect. So, I may get one early next year when things start picking up again, that is assuming we don't have a Covid resurgence.
 
Teddy_Dem said:
A few good looking frames posted in this thread
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Nice to see some footage.

Re: Instagram. Didn't IG start out as at least in part based on publishing images?

How is it even possible that a service like IG gets this kind of traction when you can't make an image full screen on a mobile device, they don't even offer an iPad/tablet app and when I follow your link to Jarred's video on a 5K iMac the video is the size of a Samsung T5 with no options to do anything to improve that? Expect to lean forward.
 
AndreeOnline said:
Nice to see some footage.

Re: Instagram. Didn't IG start out as at least in part based on publishing images?

How is it even possible that a service like IG gets this kind of traction when you can't make an image full screen on a mobile device, they don't even offer an iPad/tablet app and when I follow your link to Jarred's video on a 5K iMac the video is the size of a Samsung T5 with no options to do anything to improve that? Expect to lean forward.
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The emphasis was always on the 'insta' not the 'gram'. In order to make everything load quickly, the resolutions have to be way down. And you're not supposed to look too closely, you're supposed to move onto something else. But I agree it sucks
 
AndreeOnline said:
Nice to see some footage.

Re: Instagram. Didn't IG start out as at least in part based on publishing images?

How is it even possible that a service like IG gets this kind of traction when you can't make an image full screen on a mobile device, they don't even offer an iPad/tablet app and when I follow your link to Jarred's video on a 5K iMac the video is the size of a Samsung T5 with no options to do anything to improve that? Expect to lean forward.
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I agree. I wish they were posting these on Vimeo or YouTube at least. But I think Jarred mentioned in the comments of the post that they will be gathering and uploading high quality versions of the videos soon. Here is another one he posted on Instagram shot on Komodo with the Sigma 35mm lens:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBI9hhgBEAH/?igshid=1kk8opthfi25d
 
ahalpert said:
:) lol

Yeah there's there's something unusual about not seeing any jello, but I think I'm just not used to it. It's certainly better than noticing it!

Maybe the issue is that I'm staring so hard at the backgrounds looking for it so it feels weird.

GS is very cool but I don't mind a fast rolling shutter.

What gets me excited for this camera is redcode RAW for $6k with this much DR and small enough to go on my Ronin-S, plus with the RED brand.

UMP G2 is too big for that and has a less respected brand.

I might feel like saying to hell with the Sony, business moves be damned. Still, early days yet
Click to expand...

Not when you’ve spent your entire career shooting almost exclusively with “global shutter”* cameras. I only have one “real” camera that has a rolling shutter, the C300. My F55 and VariCam’s are all “global shutter”. And honestly, skew and jello weren’t THAT much of a problem on the 300 until you started really whipping it around, it’s always been the flash banding that is the most noticeable and egregious artifact of most (real) cameras with rolling shutter sensors.


*I consider this a relatively new term since CMOS sensors really started to come into the mix. We never had to worry about any of this stuff with CCD cameras.
 
James0b57 said:
A tiny bit of jello may even seem more natural in a a sense. Does any camera manufacturer make the scan bottom to top? That way a passing car leans forward with speed, and buildings and electric poles lean back passively as they are being passed.
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Run&Gun said:
it’s always been the flash banding [...] We never had to worry about any of this stuff with CCD cameras.
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Nor with film cameras. The Zacuto Shoot-Out busted the myth that film cameras' rotating shutter caused rolling shutter (see my painstaking extraction of screenshots below).

Rolling shutter is an anomaly in the history of cinema, ca. 2005-2035 (hopefully).

As Run&Gun points out, horizontal skew is the least egregious artifact. Flash banding, propellers, sports analysis (baseball bat swings, golf club swings), weird renditions of vibrating guitar strings. I guess a lot of that is visible only with a combination of severe rolling shutter and fast shutter speeds. A small thing, I suppose. But I would prioritize global shutter over resolution above 2K.

zacuto_shoot-out_2011_rolling_shutter.gif
 
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If recording to Prores 2K, this camera is exactly the camera we’ve been asking for the last decade.
 
combatentropy said:
Nor with film cameras. The Zacuto Shoot-Out busted the myth that film cameras' rotating shutter caused rolling shutter (see my painstaking extraction of screenshots below).

Rolling shutter is an anomaly in the history of cinema, ca. 2005-2035 (hopefully).

As Run&Gun points out, horizontal skew is the least egregious artifact. Flash banding, propellers, sports analysis (baseball bat swings, golf club swings), weird renditions of vibrating guitar strings. I guess a lot of that is visible only with a combination of severe rolling shutter and fast shutter speeds. A small thing, I suppose. But I would prioritize global shutter over resolution above 2K.

zacuto_shoot-out_2011_rolling_shutter.gif
Click to expand...

Rolling shutter in digital cameras is a result of sequential line scanning with each pixel value being recorded only at the time it is actively scanned. Temporal events that occur during the frame scan but are shorter than the scan refresh interval are not completely recorded or in some cases may not appear in the image at all.

A global shutter camera captures the whole frame at once for the full exposure time, then reads the image out during the dark interval between exposures. The image is time coherent.

Komodo is likely to be adopted for scientific work such as astronomy or motion analysis where time coherent images are essential.

The same series of CCD sensors used in my Bolex are also used for the Mars Rover cameras.

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I’m just speculating, but a rotating shutter would not have the same artifacts that scanning top to bottom would. So, horizontal motion would not be as affected as CMOS RS.

Whereas top to bottom motion might capture more skew, since the shutter is rotating in a more side ways motion

The other aspect, is that a rotaring shutter is much larger than one scan line, so even though it is technically a rolling shutter, it has no where near the same effect that CMOS scanning has.
 
It has been interesting seeing some actual incredulity bordering on outrage at some of Komodos rumored specs.

But why are all these people complain about it like it is a bad A cam, but a good price, when in fact it is a high end action cam with a high price. It is currently a $7,000 hand made GoPro, but with better image quality than a BMPCC6K.

Seems a lot of people were hoping it would be able to be their main camera. When the Arri Mini came out, it was not designed as an A Camera either, and there are still a lot of ergonomic issues with the Alexa mini. And the Mini LF fixes some of the ergonomic issues, but then has lower frame rates due to heating/cooling restrictions of the smaller body. But all these drawbacks of the B cam design don't outweigh the smaller lighter package and lower price tag, so invariably, we'll see these things as A cam.

I read a comment on Newsooter, where some guy was scoffing at the max frame rates of 6K. Saying how clients demand 60fps.... ok, but don't clients also demand that you don't show up with a glorified GoPro?

There looks to be some cool modern features. I am interested in how the Wifi stuff plays out. Supposedly there is wifi video feed, and control from the phone. And to be honest, the frame rate options are better than the Scarlet MX. So, this could very well end up as an A cam for those that are ok with some of the limits, but it does seem clear that DSMC3 will be a much better A cam. Komodo feels like a half step. Might be one of the last "low tech" cameras. We're seeing camera getting more and more modern options.
 
Yeah - so it isn't a slow-mo camera. Whoop di friggin do.

The FX9 will only be able to shoot 60p at 87% of the full frame size, which I think is more of a travesty for that camera than for Komodo, given their use cases.

If people want RED with HFR, pay another $10k+.

(That said, I'm still thinking a Sony A7S3 slots in better with my FS7, which I would love to be a C300mk3 instead. But the FS7 will remain relevant and I already own it. Komodo would improve all my footage but I have many clients who wouldn't want to shoot RAW and consider RED as a RAW shooter although it shoots ProRes. So from a business perspective I might be better served by the Pocket 6K than Komodo (since it's cheaper) but will probably buy neither.)
 
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