Red Epic image

I just finished DPing my first Red Epic film and I have to say that it surprised me. The build and design leaves much to be desired, but the image is just fantastic! I'm playing around in the newest RedCineX (v.501) and the images I captured are just wonderful. I immediately noticed that I seem to have much more latitude, and the camera seems to really dampen ranges. I find that the camera set at default is less saturated and less contrasty, almost as if shooting something between normal and log. It's not log, but I found the camera at native settings was much more muted in saturation & contrast capture.

All I have to say is that fooling around in Cine-X, I have seen this footage jump off the screen. I can't post any pictures of the footage until the director gives me the ok, but my roommates who are all in the industry are always stopping and saying wow at the footage.

Red has a winner with this camera... now if only we had playback and LCD/EVF simultaneously. Also, what is up with RedVolts? We had four on set, but never used them since they last so little.

Here is a pic from set: You've seen it if you have read my anamorphic lens thread.

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Things Epic got right:

Framerates... wow, there are so many and with little to no resolution compromise!
2.40:1 Red has always gotten it. Even if Panasonic hasn't. 2.35 is dead. Dead.
Startup time. Changing batteries is no big deal. At all. I can shut down and restart the camera soooo fast. Wonderful
SSD... YES. Amazing. The Epic can shoot many compressions and the SSD cards are huge and very easy to use. Worlds better than those Red Drives. Formats fast too.
User buttons. There are many user buttons and they are all programmable. I loved it.
Menu system seemed pretty straight forward.


Things Epic got wrong:
Form... the side handle is great to use to navigate, but I'd rather it just be flush on the side of the camera. I thought holding the camera like a big DSLR was cumbersome and for handheld shots, it was much too heavy. I always threw it on a shoulder pad and shot it like a real camera. Maybe if it were lighter I would consider shooting like a photo camera.
Baseplate... Red's proprietary universal mounting plate is annoying... in the fact that Red sold us a camera and a universal base plate without the mounting plate... caused some issues, but they were resolved.
No playback. I was OPing... the director and I had an old school moment of trust for this shoot.
No LCD and EVF at the same time. Sharing an eye-piece with the director to frame a shot is not fast nor easy. The 1st AC wanted a monitor for the dolly moves that went from 10' to 10''... Nobody can do that without marks, and we were running out of time, so I just grabbed the wheel. I'm sure she would have nailed it without a monitor had we given her time for marks.
The fans... they are not protected, from what I could tell. We shot in the desert and it seemed the Epic cooling fans and vents were just open death star thermal exhaust port for dust and dirt. We kept her clean, but felt it seemed very vulnerable.
Gave up looking for the tint adjustment function. Used to be with CT, but now that is a main menu menu.
Glitched out everytime you pressed two user keys in quick succession. The image would divide and rearrange by fourths.
If you unplugged the EVF or LCD and replugged it back in, 50% of the time the screen would come back black and the camera would need to be restarted.
At really high ISO's, there was some sort of 'dead' pixel line through the right side of the image. Did not show itself in daylight work.
There were occasional crazy frames in a shot. The Epic would record as it was supposed to and suddenly two mini images would be superimposed. I may post that later because it was really weird and was recorded that way.

Overall, it's not the best designed, but I had no complaints about the image.
 
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No playback. I was OPing... the director and I had an old school moment of trust for this shoot.

I heard about this... it really doesn't make sense with modern day digital cinema cameras. Is there any other digital cinema camera around that can't playback on-camera? Hope it will be fixed.
 
No.

To my knowledge, celluloid film cameras are the only cameras that do not offer playback.


Red didn't choose not to include it, but rather they are having difficult trying to include it. Must be something different about how the Epic processes image versus the MX... No playback wasn't THAT bad... however the director was just dying to see the footage.
 
Hi Ryan, the cooling is isolated from the camera, so you can pour water thru it if you want. They posted a number of times about this and a quick google
search found me this. (read previous posts to this answer as well)
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...ur-EPIC-camera&p=805916&viewfull=1#post805916

For controls on the side instead of the DSLR style grip people are removing the grip and mounting the redmote on the side or rear also seen it on the hand grip in a shoulder rig.

To my knowledge, celluloid film cameras are the only cameras that do not offer playback.
Alexa went on sale mid 2010 but in-camera playback arrived in January '11 (without audio, prores only)
http://www.theblackandblue.com/2011/01/28/arri-alexa-software-update-3-0-available-in-beta-release/
so seems like a difficult thing to get onboard but red posted that its coming for the epic asap. Until then productions are getting playback via teradek
 
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Thanks for posting your feedback after your shoot - a lot of great first hand info there.

what is up with RedVolts? We had four on set, but never used them since they last so little.

How long did the RedVolts last for you? Just curious what your definition of 'little' is.
And what did you use instead, and how long was it lasting you?

Power is actually one of the things I'm most curious about when it comes to the Scarlet - because it seems to be the one area where the camera lags way behind what I'm used to.
 
Well the REDvolts get around 20-30 minutes on an EPIC. At least with the current firmware build. I imagine that Scarlet power consumption will be different though. Don't use ours either - RED Bricks and SWIT batteries last so much longer (went through a 16hr day using 4 batteries).

When you saw two superimposed images - was HDRx on?

Kegan
 
No.

To my knowledge, celluloid film cameras are the only cameras that do not offer playback.


Red didn't choose not to include it, but rather they are having difficult trying to include it. Must be something different about how the Epic processes image versus the MX... No playback wasn't THAT bad... however the director was just dying to see the footage.

Some early Beta SP's required a special playback adapter or no playback. Tell me are not going back there?
 
Some early Beta SP's required a special playback adapter or no playback. Tell me are not going back there?

That's an option, I'm sure, if you have a SDI-recorder or something. We only needed playback so the director could see the shot. I was OPing on dollies and jibs, and in the desert.... so we couldn't use an LCD for most of the part. We had to use the bomb EVF because of how bright it was. I'm sure they will figure something out.... right? :P And yes, Alexa did ship without playback if I remember correctly. I never used it before it had playback. As of now Epic is the only one without playback... they said it's coming and I believe them.

Well the REDvolts get around 20-30 minutes on an EPIC. At least with the current firmware build. I imagine that Scarlet power consumption will be different though. Don't use ours either - RED Bricks and SWIT batteries last so much longer (went through a 16hr day using 4 batteries).

When you saw two superimposed images - was HDRx on?

Kegan

Our RedVolts lasted more around 20min. On a film set, that's not a very long time. Interesting thought, the RedVolt's are. Not sure what they are for... i'm sure RedUser.net has explained their existence. We have the regular Red-bricks (v-mount) batts. In the desert we had six of them and never ran out of power. Ever. We also had the Redbrick (v-mount) battery plate with clip. I wore it like a battery belt and it was great. Talk about being like a film camera! No playback, one eye piece, battery belt power, etc. Fun times! I liked it!

Regarding the side handle, the director had purchased his Epic-M a while ago and is still waiting for his Redmote and Bomb EVF. We had to rent the EVF from a rental house and we couldn't even find a Redmote. So that handle is all we have. It's not bad to change settings, and I like the user keys... however I still think holding it like a DSLR is not as light or intuitive as it was attemted to be, and when the camera is on your shoulder, you have to reach a little too far back to get to the dial and it's also facing behind you, versus to the side. Just my opinion.

I would have loved to have shed the side handle and gone Redmote... but honestly I would have missed all the other hot buttons on the camera. When on tripod, it was very helpful.

No. HDRx should never have been on. We don't need it, and I'll try to find that still in a bit.

EDIT: Can't find it... maybe it was a Cine-X issue? I kept scrubbing over the same area and it was always the same frame. I'll check more later. I did find the dead pixel line that only appears at high ISO (5000)

A004_C056_0923EQ_001.0000437.jpg
^ hard to see when DVXuser makes everything so small. It's just left of the headlights.

Untitled-2.jpg
^ expanded view



Also, good to know about the fans. They just seemed so vulnerable... I can actually see the fan sitting right there at the front of the housing. I guess if it's safe, it's safe. The camera never over-heated out in the desert and it really didn't get that warm either. Of course we had ice-packs on standby and we had a courtesy almost at all times, to be safe.
 
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If you haven't already I would send in a report to Red about that and any other issues. Thanks for your thoughts very interesting, and that shot looks wonderful... aside from the line.

Have fun!
 
I see that dead pixel line. Weird how its connected to the ISO

Are you certain it's connected to ISO, or it is only that it was just made more obvious at higher ISOs?
I've seen pixel issues on FS100s and various DSLRs before that were always present, but became much more obvious as the gain was pushed up.
 
Interesting thought, the RedVolt's are. Not sure what they are for... i'm sure RedUser.net has explained their existence.

I suppose simply to give you the option of a much smaller and lighter setup for specific shots (steadicam, car mounts, etc).
They are also developing both a dual and quad RedVolt module.
They may not be the perfect solution - but I suppose they offer some things that the bricks don't.
 
Are you certain it's connected to ISO, or it is only that it was just made more obvious at higher ISOs?
I've seen pixel issues on FS100s and various DSLRs before that were always present, but became much more obvious as the gain was pushed up.

I think you are right. It seems I can tell it's there on lower ISO's... just much less obvious... however i've looked at lots of footage and it's not always visable. Maybe it appears only when the sensor is heating up or some variable like that? I've looked for it in other shots and sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not. I've told the director/camera owner to have Red look into it.

I suppose simply to give you the option of a much smaller and lighter setup for specific shots (steadicam, car mounts, etc).
They are also developing both a dual and quad RedVolt module.
They may not be the perfect solution - but I suppose they offer some things that the bricks don't.

I figured it might be for steadicam and etc... but still doesn't make sense. If we had used a Redvolt and steadicam, i'm not sure there would have been enough room to open the bottom door and drop the battery for a change without having to take it off. I've not done it yet, but I remember having the camera on a big tripod head and noticing that I'd have to take the camera off to change the RedVolt had we used one. Also, I've been on my fair share of steadicam shoots, and it takes about 20minutes to simply set up the camera and rehearse! If Red wants to make steadicam easier, they ought to just make a power connector that allows Epic to be powered off the steadicam sled batts or something similar! :)

The only advantage of a dual module, in my mind, is hot-swapping. But with Epic restart times being so short, it's really a non-issue, imo.

I'll wait and let Red prove me wrong before I make my final decision about the function of RedVolts.
 
Red recommends doing a black shade for high ISO settings. Might solve the dead pixel issue. Were you shooting at high ISO setting or bringing it up in RCx afterwards?
 
Kinda like what all the GH2's got on their sensors... but that ones moves with changing shutter speed... try it... maybe there's actually a GH2 sensor in there MWHEHah... :Drogar-Shock(DBG):

Oops, that's not funny.
 
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