Red announces Scarlet to ship in 2011

kylevant said:
You do have a point there. Although R&D costs aren't necessarily as high as manufacturing costs - and if RED have determined there's not a big enough market for a fixed lens Scarlet then I doubt they'll put it into production. I think we'll be seeing the interchangeable version for sure - and if the Fixed Lens version is also released then fantastic. Everyone wins!
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R&D costs can be VERY VERY VERY high on this stuff. If you go through the trouble to make a few, you almost certainly want to manufacture just to cover your costs. I am SURE without question that the Scarlet development is well into millions at this point. Just the sensor runs alone would eat up a lot of that. Chip design, and specifically CMOS image sensors, are NOT cheap to manufacture or test. Not producing something out of all that work would be a huge waste of money.

Now, instead, if all that they designed just rolled into a slightly different product, that's a different story. Say their fixed lenses are just not cost effective, well, then they just go interchangeable only. This is hypothetical, but I know companies that have spent a LOT of R&D to design something and it ends up being too expensive to manufacture, but, they've lost a lot of money at this point, so they continue to work on ways to make it cheaper before producing it. None of them want to throw it away because then it is a total loss.
 
Rick Burnett said:
R&D costs can be VERY VERY VERY high on this stuff. If you go through the trouble to make a few, you almost certainly want to manufacture just to cover your costs. I am SURE without question that the Scarlet development is well into millions at this point. Just the sensor runs alone would eat up a lot of that. Chip design, and specifically CMOS image sensors, are NOT cheap to manufacture or test. Not producing something out of all that work would be a huge waste of money.Now, instead, if all that they designed just rolled into a slightly different product, that's a different story. Say their fixed lenses are just not cost effective, well, then they just go interchangeable only. This is hypothetical, but I know companies that have spent a LOT of R&D to design something and it ends up being too expensive to manufacture, but, they've lost a lot of money at this point, so they continue to work on ways to make it cheaper before producing it. None of them want to throw it away because then it is a total loss.
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I'm not sure there'd be that much they'd be throwing out. Scarlet, whether fixed or not, is probably just the exact same camera with the lens permanently attached on one version and with a larger sensor in another. I doubt that there'd be any real differences mechanically or electonically outside of that.
 
Grug said:
I'm not sure there'd be that much they'd be throwing out. Scarlet, whether fixed or not, is probably just the exact same camera with the lens permanently attached on one version and with a larger sensor in another. I doubt that there'd be any real differences mechanically or electonically outside of that.
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That's not the case. I've followed the Scarlet for a very long time and the fixed lens is a lot different then I've seen on any other camera. Built in electronically controlled ND, and a bunch of other things. The bodies were not the same because of this. There is probably a lot of work that went into controlling their fixed system (like selectable ring functions and such) that an interchangeable one would not matter with.

Don't get me wrong, there is a TON of overlap between the Interchangeable/Fixed and even Epic/Red One development. That is very clear. But just the lens alone looks like it required A LOT of investment to make. The body design, etc, it's still a lot of money I am sure they'd like to get back.
 
No, it is not.
If it is merely a concept and is never released, then it is vaporware. At best(worst actually) you can suspect it being vaporware until the day it is released but that seems rather unlikely at this point, right?
 
Bottom line now is how much "dinero" this thing is gonna cost. That will be the biggest surprise now. Either high or low. Given the way things are going it might likely be "muchos pesitos".
 
Taking for granted that it'll be at least 3K res, Redcode Raw, 120fps and the interchangeable lens version, I hope the body will cost no more than $500 per stop of (native!) DR : )
 
looks like i pulled out of that coma just in time. can someone please confirm it's finally the year 2009 and i can now buy a 3k scarlet for under $3k.
 
ugafan said:
looks like i pulled out of that coma just in time. can someone please confirm it's finally the year 2009 and i can now buy a 3k scarlet for under $3k.
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Dude, all that 3k for $3k stuff was so 2008. You've just woken up in the year 2011 where scientists are working on recording images directly from the human brain.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...-you-won-t-even-need-a-camera-to-make-a-movie

It seems you may need to get an HDMI/HD-SDI output installed in your head.
 
If Red doesn't release the fixed Scarlet it will be a result of the Japan disaster. A key supplier of some of the lens components was in northern Japan and it may be that they can't produce it for some time to come. The interchangeable was always in the works too so it may have moved to the front of the line. It will be interesting to see what they have come up with.
I'm thinking they will introduce a camera with a smaller than Epic chip, maybe APS-C sized and 4k resolution like the original Red 1. Given the shared core technologies and design for efficient production line manufacturing they should now be able to equal Red 1's frame rates with next gen sensitivity and DR in a brain costing less than half the original price of an R1 body. It takes a production team of 8 less than 15 minutes to build an Epic now. A RED 1 took hours.
 
Just did some looking on Red's site, last week Jarred seemed to state rather flatly that Scarlet will ship before the end of the year. Later in the thread he posted that orders would be taken in early November. Link here.

At least, I think that's what he meant. Anyone read it differently? Also, Red has repeatedly stated in the past that Scarlet will ship when ordered with no delay.

Keep your fingers crossed.
 
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I believe that post predates the November 3rd announcement where they stated the scarlet would be available for purchase 1 hour after the announcement.

Now that is a different thing from shipping, but I believe that was just Jarred calming the nerves of the scarlet hopefuls, but then they decided to just tell us about Nov 3rd. Now that does mean it could still be a while before the camera's actually ship, but I'd say this is the closest we have been to actually seeing scarlet shipping so I wouldn't be to pessimistic.

then again who knows, with Red best thing to do is keep acting like it doesn't exist and go on with life as normal until it is actually in the store and shipping.
 
I gotta tell y'all. I have been as uninterested as the next guy, due to the start/stop/wait/wait/wait even longer.

That said, if this thing has a S35 size sensor, and redcode with interchangeable lenses, and less than 9K: (That's a lot of "ifs" I know...)

I will be a Red customer as soon as I can get through the waiting list. I suspect that many other on here will too....
As much as I hate the circus that surrounds their self imposed "love/hate" public persona/whatever you want to call it, they are still the only group that has even DARED to create a product with RAW video for under 9K. I hope that someone else will join the club soon, but for now, I must give MAD props to Red Camera Co....I hope they blow the doors off with Scarlet.
 
I don't think so HHL. It's my strong impression that this is the fixed lens Scarlet. Agree with your post though on the whole love/hate/dare thing.

Thanks for the other updates, guys.
 
snowleopard said:
Just did some looking on Red's site, last week Jarred seemed to state rather flatly that Scarlet will ship before the end of the year. Later in the thread he posted that orders would be taken in early November. Link here.

At least, I think that's what he meant. Anyone read it differently? Also, Red has repeatedly stated in the past that Scarlet will ship when ordered with no delay.

Keep your fingers crossed.
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It's not clear what Scarlet will be, though. Twice recently Jim Jannard has said posted comments on RedUser to the effect that what seemed like a good idea three years ago no longer does and will therefore change. Both Scarlet and Epic were announced three years ago. Since Epic is similar to the product announced then (5K), that leaves Scarlet. What precisely is no longer a good idea -- fixed zoom lens, 2/3-inch format, or 3K maximal resolution -- is anyone's guess. But I suspect it's the 3K resolution. Two-thirds-inch cameras are selling quite well and are viable for ENG, documentary, event, and indie productions. A fixed zoom, if of high quality and sufficient range, is acceptable for many pro applications. Besides, Red has never said that a fixed zoom or the smaller format is unprofessional or obsolescent. But it has repeatedly stated that 4K (or better) is the future.
 
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