Recording sound from board for video

T

TM video

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Don't know much about sound recording. I generaly like to record the audio of my stage productions in as many ways as possible. I get a feed from the board to my camera using an xlr cable or go wireless. I also put a mic. by a speaker as a back up. I am now looking into buying an audio recorder to record the sound from the board and join the audio with the video
in post. Im looking at the zoom H1 and I was wondering if that would fit my needs. I know it does not have any xlr inputs . I was planning to use a 3.5mm to xlr cable. Does that make sense? Thank you in advance for your help
 
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not sure what your needs actually are. what will your final output be. but if you mostly want to capture the essence of a performance, it would be great if you could record a true stereo mix from the board with a zoom, and then use yoru camera inputs for other sources. if you are only getting a mono board mix anyway, why not keep doing that on one channel of the camera, with a mic near a speaker in the other..and then use the zoom for ambience. board mixes can be dicy, depending on the kind of performance it is. always good to have the sound of the room from the perspective of a listener. mount the zoom somewhere halfay back in the room.
 
First things first ... what kind of stage productions? Musical performances, poetry readings or lectures, stand-up comedy, dramatic plays? What environment ... kids in school, community or college theatre, dinner theatre, Broadway? If music, what kind and what size group? If drama, what kind of venue? How are the performers mic'ed, if they are? Use of the program ... momento for the performers, broadcast, personal pleasure? Details, details, details...
 
It is a drama/musical . The actors will all have wirless mikes. This is being recorded to be sold at a later date. Thats why it is essntial to have quallity audio . As far as ambient sound , I will have 4 cameras so the plan is to use on board mic from one of the cameras. My only real option is sound from the board . as I am unable to mic the stage myself , to many actors on stage at the same time. The venue is a proffesional theater. the music is mostly prerecorded. some will be played live. 3 piece band.
 
And are you able to work with the board operator to get a proper recordi g mix from him? The problem is a board op is concerned with FOH sound and the mix might be quite different from what is best for recording.
 
THe sound operator will be giving me a feed that is post mix. The exact sound that will be coming from the speakers. I know ideally it should br mixed strictly for video but thats not really an option unless I hire a sound Tech for video only
 
TM video said:
THe sound operator will be giving me a feed that is post mix. The exact sound that will be coming from the speakers. I know ideally it should br mixed strictly for video but thats not really an option unless I hire a sound Tech for video only
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This is being recorded to be sold at a later date.
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So it apparently comes down to how serious the producer is about creating a quality product that they can sell?
 
OK You say that it is essential to have quality audio, and that you plan to sell the recordings. Great! I suggest you do not cheap out then. Not that you have to go crazy, but you need something reliable, as well as a few key pieces of equipment.

In a word, "matrix" recording. That is a combination of a board feed, along with mics, so you get a great blend of direct and live sound. It's usually used for live music when you cant get a channel for every instrument, and it's much better than just putting up stereo mics.

You should have:

• Tascam DR-680:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/673541-REG/Tascam_DR_680_DR_680_8_Track_Portable_Field.html 8 track recorder that is more like a 6 track on steroids. It's cheaper than the best bang for your buck 4 track (R-44) and sounds better.

• 4 mics. Or at least 2(or one) for decent stereo. But 4 is better. You can put a stereo mic like the Rode NT-4 front and center, then a pair of NT5s (or NT55s) at the front/left & front/right of the stage to pick up people sing/talking there. Nobody stays in the center usually. 2 sets of NT5 matched pairs would cover most things for sure. I like the simplicity of the NT4 for easy X/Y recording and positioning.

• RCA to XLR adapters - 2 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=workaround.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=274503&is=REG
Good for coming off the boards. But you should talk to the sound person to see what kinds of out's their board has for you. Still have these though, because sometimes that's all you get. RCA is at consumer line level.

• Inline Attenuators - 2: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...hnica_AT8202_AT8202_In_Line_Attenuator.ht ml You may not need these often, but you will need them sometimes, and the recording will be ruined without them. It steps down a loud line level signal to something quieter. It's a -10dv, -20db, -30db switchable pad to put in between XLR cable connections. The Tascam DR-680 has line level input selection, but sometimes you never know if you need more padding until you are there and listening.

• Lots of XLR cable

If you would have said "It's essential to have sketchy audio that may pass, but may also record distorted due to crappy pres on a consumer bedroom recorder like a Zoom (any model)." I would have ignored this thread. What I have listed is the best bang for your buck to record multiple tracks with good pres and reliability. Also you have the connectivity to sound boards that is needed in EVERY audio persons kit. Sometimes you can get XLR out of a board, or sometimes 1/4". Just talk to the sound person before the show to find out. The mics I listed are just good mics for a good price. You can use whatever you want, but I don't think you're going to beat the NT5 matched pair price/quality ratio. I just got a matched pair of NT55's but haven't tested them out yet. I have had good results with the Rode NT-4 in the center, and a pair of NT3s on the sides pointing inward at 45 degrees (depending on where the talent will be).

The point here is that you plan on selling these recordings. So spend the 1,300 - 1,700.00 to get the right gear so you can relax and just make a good recording. Then you will sell some and the word will get out that you do good work. And you will have something to show the next client. But for the love of God please do not try to do this with a Zoom H2. That's like trying to watch a a movie on an iPhone. You think you saw the movie when it's done, but you didn't really see the movie.

Now go do the right thing...
 
I just read that you plan on using the on board mics from the cameras. No. It will just sound far away. The only thing that audio is good for is syncing up the great audio you got from the board and the mics at the stage.
 
I guess I'll be the one to bring up the issue of filming a live performance for video sales.

Unless the work being performed is original work, you must have permission of the work's owner before you can sell copies of the performance. It doesn't matter if it's a school, a non-profit whatever, or any other excuse many use to cercumvent copywright. Contact the owner or publisher of the work and obtain permission. Several theatres lately have been busted for videoing performances for "archival" purposes and then handing out copies to the cast and crew. In most all cases, the licensing purchased for use of the work in live performance does not extend to recording permissions, let alone, recording for resale.
 
Best and easiest way to get good sound at a show is to find a nice balance between the board's stereo mix and two stereo condensor mics that you use to get a stereo image of the room. You should also use an audio editing tool to adjust the sound for delay because there is a delay from the time that the sound from the board reaches the camera and the time that it takes for the sound to come out of the pa system and into the mics. You can use more mics to get a better image, but this is more important for music and really intense recordings.

This is what we did with two sennheiser me64s and a stereo feed from the board a few weeks ago. Used some eq and compression and mixing in ableton live. A good recording but not a great one, there is some phasing because the mics did not have identical distance from the pa system. This is somewhat fixable but not completely, still came out great though in my opinion.

 
Exactly. That's the "Matrix" style recording I described a few posts back. I just did it last night with one board feed for the voices, and a stereo pair of mics to catch the amps. It's a decent way to catch a live show, and still have some control over the mix. Being able to get the voices separate is great. But with a DR-680 you can go the extra mile and mic the bass cab and kick to really tighten up the low end. I didn't do this last night because it was an off the cuff thing. But it was a pretty simple setup to bring the recorder, one mic stand with a t-bar for stereo mic set-up, an RCA-to-XLR converter to grab the board audio as one channel (people rarely mic PAs in stereo) and my camera.

Just having the voices clean and dry really helps, and I can add reverb to give it some ambiance.
 
Recording that kind of thing is always difficult. Make sure you get a feel for what isn't covered. It could be that not everyone is wired, or that there are sound effects, whatever.
Then devise a way to get as much coverage on as many tracks as you can.
 
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