Recording Music in the Field?

S

Strouty

Well-known member
I am looking to start a pet project series that will involve filming and recording local acoustic artists playing a song or two (there will also be a documentary/interview portion but I can handle that). I have mic'd a guitar a couple times in my life, but about 99% of my experience is in ENG and film type recording and not music and studio.

The filming and recording will largely be outside (we do not want to studio record and then overdub). We are starting with acoustic singer/song writer types, so it will largely be 1 guitar and 1 singer. I don't want to anything more complex than that until I get more experience. I am not a professional sound engineer (more like enthusiast). There are 3 or 4 of us involved in the project, so I will be 100% focused on audio (although I'm a better camera guy) and having others do the filming

Applicable Gear Owned: Rode NTG3, AT4053b, AT4073a, Rode NTG 1A, Rode Lavaliers, 2x Senny G3, Rode Blimp, SD302, Tascam DR680. I probably have a Shure SM58 laying around as well.

Budget: 0-$1000. I'll probably buy used to keep loss to a minimum in case project doesn't work out and I need to sell anything.

The microphone(s) can be in shot, although we would like to keep it as 'aesthetically' pleasing as possible. However, probably one of the better executions (audio wise) that I have seen of this type of thing is NPR Field Recordings, where I believe the engineer often uses just a Sennheiser 418S (MS) shotgun in a blimp.
Examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEFf3F2a8HE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjmc9h_lpkE

I would consider a full blimp + deadcat in the middle of shot a worse case aesthetic scenario, although if that is what it will take, audio is getting the nod over video and aesthetics in this project.

Wind noise is my primary concern, as well as cutting down on other ambient noise as much as possible. Inside, I'd probably throw a small condenser on the guitar and large condenser for the vocals and call it good. We plan to run through songs a couple times so that we have something to cut to in case of really bad noises (as well as for different video cuts). We are trying to pick locations carefully, but on the coast of Maine, some sort of breeze can be counted on. Sonic nirvana isn't expected, we are just hoping for a nice clean recording to go along with the video. We also have the luxury of rescheduling shoots on particularly windy days (no deadlines and nobody is getting paid)

Some setups I was thinking about:
1. One carefully placed mic (in frame or out) to pick up both vocals and guitar (Rode NTG3 or 4053 or other purchase in blimp)
2. Small condenser (4053 or purchased mic) on guitar in rycote baby ball gag and dynamic/condenser (shure 58 or like?) for vocals? Wind noise for the vocal mic is main concern so it would have to have some sort of effective wind screen.
3. Would love try try a couple figure eight mics to cut down on acoustic and vocal track bleed but don't think there are too many suited for outdoor applications.
4. Lavaliers? I know DPA makes a couple specifically for acoustic guitars. Not sure how the Rode lavaliers would do.
5. Mid-Side setup? Have never tried, but would love to sometime! Audio Technica BP4029 maybe?


Suggestions? I'm planning on grabbing a friend with an acoustic and testing out different setups before hand, but would love suggestions as well.
 
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In some of those videos my comment why try and record in a windstorm? ...... Is it production people with a 'must shoot' attitude rather than a 'get the best for all' production.
Why would anyone expect good sound with a mic at that distance from the performers? You wouldn't do it in a studio so why do it outdoors?
Outdoor things like that are often better done close mic'd with lav mics and then post mixed, the vineyard clip would be done with 3x RF lav mics (one on the female, one on the male and one on the guitar) ..... where do you mount them (use your ears) as EVERY person and situation is different, these days it seems that people go to the internet to find out 'How to do it', often real life trial and error delivers MUCH better results.
Music recorded outdoors often sound strange as there is little or no reverb without reflective surfaces... and it just sounds weird if reverb is added in post prod.
You also need to add a location atmos track to get the real feeling of the site to make it sound realistic.

You need to make up your mind are you recording audio for a video shoot .....OR, are they recording video on an audio record.

But what would I know.... apart from recording location music for a childrens TV show for many many years.
 
Strouty said:
...audio is getting the nod over video and aesthetics in this project. ...We also have the luxury of rescheduling shoots on particularly windy days (no deadlines and nobody is getting paid).
Click to expand...

If audio is really the priority, then 1) keep an eye on the weather and schedule filming for calm days, and 2) put the mics in the shot, because signal to noise ratio in audio recording mainly comes down to mic-to-subject distance. IOW, put that SM58 on a mic stand and let your singer sing to it (mouth no more than 10cm away), and put a guitar pickup on the guitar and let the guitarist play. This should push environmental noise levels down to a manageable level. Low cut filters on both mic and mixer if available (they add, so a 12dB/octave slope on each creates a 24dB/octave slope total, which in this case might be just what you want).

As you already know, wind noise is just a problem of slowing the air motion down around the microphone. If you can't get what you want with a softie, going the full blimp + furry route might help, but at that stage it's really just too windy, unless windy is what you really want. I don't know about your singer, but many would be distracted by their hair flying around and having to watch for flying debris. Distracted to the point of not being able to actually get into their performance. And if that's the case, what are you really doing anyway?

Speaking of softies, the only test I've heard of the new Rycote Super Softie showed that it's actually better at taking out the low frequency buffeting from wind than the regular furry softie. That test shows up on this forum somewhere in the last week or so, so search for it and give it a listen if you want to hear it.
 
Thanks for the advice and thoughts guys. We definitely aren't planning on shooting on any particularly windy days. However, I live on the coast where winds of 8-10 mph are pretty much standards and waiting for anything less than that isn't realistic. I also understand that recording outside will give a very 'dead' sound without any room acoustics.

I hadn't thought of a guitar pickup so that is definitely something to consider. A friend and I are going out this week for some test and I'll probably try to see how my AT4053 sounds in a softie on the guitar. The super softie looks very intriguing. It would also look a lot better if it had to be in shot than either my softie or the blimp that I have.

As for a vocal mic, I couldn't find my Shure 58 so I'll probably order another one (other recommendations?). I'm assuming a dynamic is the way to go over a condenser like the beta 87 if used in a breezy environment. A 58 + foam windscreen should be enough in a light breeze, correct? I've used one outside quite a bit (more reporter style than for vocals) but don't remember any significant wind noise. Guess we'll find out.

I've been eyeballing a Audio Technica BP4029 (835ST) mic as well to play around with. Would love to mess around with some mid-side recording and it would also be useful for some ambient recording for other projects.
 
Strouty said:
A friend and I are going out this week for some test and I'll probably try to see how my AT4053 sounds in a softie on the guitar.
Click to expand...

I've got a 4053b, was thinking it might work for a guitar mic. I'm interested in your results; please post a followup and let us know what you find.
 
Strouty,

Some musicians and singers don't get along very well with certain microphones. You might want to ask the performers if they have any microphone preferences. They might even have their own mics.

For references you might what to check out:

www.gearslutz.com
www.taperssection.com

Those sites cover more music oriented sound recording.

Good luck on your project.

Kevin
 
The BBC for many years had a religious programme that often did this kind of thing usually a person sitting on a hill top or in an abbey grounds surrounded by flowers and trees and strumming a guitar. Whenever they had real live sound, then it would be a slim, unobtrusive condenser, spoiled by a huge foam windshield. The guitar if a normal acoustic would also have the same setup and it sounded nice just two mics eq'd and blended but looked awful. Other times you'd see the same kind of shot with no microphones and great sound, but lip sync and guitarist finger sync showed it was a pre record and the singers miming. Even gentle breeze means wind noise, and worse still, wind drift that blows the sound away, so your distant mics pick up even less sound. If you fix the sound you spoil the picture, so my advice is pre record and then get them to mime to playback. Nothing looks worse to me than technology visible in a rural setting.
 
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