After hearing that this recorder was so popular with DSLR work I decided to pick one up and have been very dissappointed. Dont get me wrong the sound is incredible quality but this thing seems to be picking up sound from a 360 degree radius and not what is directly in front of me. My apartment is pretty close to a street and when im inside with my back turned to it I can hear cars whoosing by very clearly when im outside trying to get a interview i can hear conversations of people way down the block behind me. If i wanted an eavesdropping machine instead of a shotgun mic i would have bought one. Is there anything i can do to eliminated some of these sounds. Ive tried switching between 90 and 120 degrees and lowering the volume to 30-40 but thats to low to hear in the editor and by the time i raise the levels up theres a loud hissing noise.
Recording levels or settings for the Zoom H4n to eliminate all this ambient noise?
- Thread starter dtjohns1
- Start date
paulears
Veteran
I suspect you might be using it upright if you collect sound all the way around. - the recorder is designed to give pickup towards the front, however, you could simply be using it too far away and the mix of wanted sound to unwanted reflections is too great. Levels wise, this won't alter the sound at all apart from increasing the noise, or distorting if set too high. The ratio of wanted and unwanted sound stays the same. Best guess for the problem, is simply distance, and placement. With an x/y mic system, if you can arrange the two people so they each have one of the capsules pointing towards their mouth at maybe 2 feet or so, this angle seems to fit quite well - however, each mic still picks up the other person - separation is not that great.
Most of these small recorders have omni type onboard mics and are primarily intended for the music market. Put it in front of the band and hit the record button. Sound for video requires much more. Having said that, any mic needs to be very close to the intended audio source to isolate the unwanted sound from other sources. This simple concept is the most important single thing you can do to improve your sound. If your mic is very close to the intended source, you can reduce the gain needed to record thus reducing hiss and isolating you intended source.
If you intend to record good audio for video, you will need to use additional mics, and all the other equipment normally used to produce good sound. A little zoom is handy, but only a small piece of a much bigger picture.
Grant
If you intend to record good audio for video, you will need to use additional mics, and all the other equipment normally used to produce good sound. A little zoom is handy, but only a small piece of a much bigger picture.
Grant
Richard Crowley
Veteran
No small portable digital recorders are noted for their microphones. The mics used on those devices are very inexpensive (typically < US$1) electret capsules. They are sufficient for things like recording ambient sounds, or for casual interviewing when use at close-spacing (12-18 inches, etc.)
As others have already suggested, if you are trying to record dialog in a noisy location, NO recorder (and NO microphone, no matter how expensive) is going to eliminate the ambient noise. You appear to be trying to do something that nobody has ever done successfully before. It takes starting out with a quiet space, and using whatever microphone to its best advantage to achieve maximum signal-to-noise ratio.
The H4N may be popular with the DSLR production crowd, but NOT with the built-in microphones. That is why directional microphones (like hyper-cardioid indoors, and line-gradient or "shotgun" microphones outdoors) are typically used for cine/video production. And the microphones are typically positioned as close to the actors as possible with use of a long boom pole, etc.
As others have already suggested, if you are trying to record dialog in a noisy location, NO recorder (and NO microphone, no matter how expensive) is going to eliminate the ambient noise. You appear to be trying to do something that nobody has ever done successfully before. It takes starting out with a quiet space, and using whatever microphone to its best advantage to achieve maximum signal-to-noise ratio.
The H4N may be popular with the DSLR production crowd, but NOT with the built-in microphones. That is why directional microphones (like hyper-cardioid indoors, and line-gradient or "shotgun" microphones outdoors) are typically used for cine/video production. And the microphones are typically positioned as close to the actors as possible with use of a long boom pole, etc.
Steve House
Veteran
Think about it a moment, dt. Adjusting levels is NOT selective - turning it down does not reduce the distant sounds while keeping the closer ones the same. That level knob is an all or nothing deal. It raises or lowers everything by equal measure. What you are seeking to do is change the RATIO of unwanted to desired sound and that means the recording mic has to be much closer to the desired source, as the other posters in this thread have noted. If your recorder is four feet from the person speaking and you move it in to be one foot away, the desired sound will be 16 times as strong at the microphone (a phenomnon called the Inverse Square Law in action) while the undesired ambient noise will stay exactly the same - you will have improved the situation 16 fold without touching any controls at all.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
IF you wanted a Shotgun mic why on earth didn't you buy one? How can you complain about a device that is recording exactly the way it was designed? It is not a shotgun mic, nobody EVER said it was one, it will NOT record like one. IF you need a shotgun (if youe inside probably not) then go get one and hook it up to the recorder.
I will say that if your apartment is noisy then that is going to be there no mater what you buy. There is no mic that you can say "don't record X". They record what comes in. GIGO.
But I feel your pain. I bought a motorcycle the other day and it rained and I got wet! What's up with that. It never happened in my car?
How big is your budget? For tighter budgets, the RODE NTG-2 is a great place to start for shotgun mics. If you can afford a little more, the NTG-3 is even better.
However, shotgun mics are generally not suited for indoor use especially in reflective/noisy environments such as apartments or houses. They'll do much better if the interior space is fairly non-reflective, or even acoustically dead. Your better bet indoors is a hypercardioid, like the Oktava MK012 or the Audio Technica 4053b.
paulears
Veteran
Well I don't understand it either! I'm on the receiving end of lots of material recorded on the zooms and similar, and I've stuck a short clip from a longer piece that I was working on today here www.earsmedia.co.uk/clip3.mp3
Two cardioids, in X/Y format built into a handy box - I tell you what, it easily keeps up with the same price condenser elements built into many cameras.
Small size condenser elements can be very good, and these zooms and similar, do a pretty good job of recording some things.
Of course a decent shotgun in a proper housing, swung by somebody who is wearing headphones and knows what they are doing may well turn in a better recording, but these gadgets produce stereo, and the only skill required is placement.
Two cardioids, in X/Y format built into a handy box - I tell you what, it easily keeps up with the same price condenser elements built into many cameras.
Small size condenser elements can be very good, and these zooms and similar, do a pretty good job of recording some things.
Of course a decent shotgun in a proper housing, swung by somebody who is wearing headphones and knows what they are doing may well turn in a better recording, but these gadgets produce stereo, and the only skill required is placement.
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dtjhohns1
No one is attacking you, but the audio group that contributes here is fairly brutal for honestly. If you take the time to read the stickies above and ask specific questions about a certain problem, you will get the benefit of some really great resources.
Your first post ripped a decent portable recorder and anyone who does sound said to themselves: This guy has no idea since he is blaming the recorder for something it can't do. Your last post asked about shotguns, but you gave us no other information. You could certainly use the search function, read the stickies and then ask a specific question and get a much nicer response, probably <8-0.
For example: a couple of decent shotguns are, the Rode NTG2 ($250) and the Shoeps CMIT5 ($2000) so that gives you a range. But had you considered wind protection, suspension, boom pole, cable, headphones all of which you probably need and can easily add up to more than the cost of a mid-range mic.
Someone might suggest you look at a kit with all these essentials depending on your need and budget.
So in the spirit of trying to help you: what is the focus of your work, will you have a boom operator with any experience, are you outside (probably should be with a shotgun), what is your budget. Give us a little more info, be specific and no one will "attack" you.
Oh, and welcome to the audio board.
Grant
No one is attacking you, but the audio group that contributes here is fairly brutal for honestly. If you take the time to read the stickies above and ask specific questions about a certain problem, you will get the benefit of some really great resources.
Your first post ripped a decent portable recorder and anyone who does sound said to themselves: This guy has no idea since he is blaming the recorder for something it can't do. Your last post asked about shotguns, but you gave us no other information. You could certainly use the search function, read the stickies and then ask a specific question and get a much nicer response, probably <8-0.
For example: a couple of decent shotguns are, the Rode NTG2 ($250) and the Shoeps CMIT5 ($2000) so that gives you a range. But had you considered wind protection, suspension, boom pole, cable, headphones all of which you probably need and can easily add up to more than the cost of a mid-range mic.
Someone might suggest you look at a kit with all these essentials depending on your need and budget.
So in the spirit of trying to help you: what is the focus of your work, will you have a boom operator with any experience, are you outside (probably should be with a shotgun), what is your budget. Give us a little more info, be specific and no one will "attack" you.
Oh, and welcome to the audio board.
Grant
unclebob6958
Well-known member
So you bought it because it was popular. Did you find out why it was popular? What kind of research did you do?
You need to do the due diligence first. Read the stickies on the top of the forum; there's a veritable gold mine in there for audio newbs. Do a forum search (there's dozens about the H4n). Do research in other places. Everyone here is glad to help, but not doing your homework smacks of laziness.
""Recording levels or settings for the Zoom H4n to eliminate all this ambient noise?""
Answer is... The Zoom will not pick up ambient noise if you turn it down all the way.
You are suffering a from a malaise that is spreading rapidly.....you can get excellent looking pictures ("HD" if you will) for not a whole lot of money.....and then decide that you want to do really excellent audio.. and it should be just a fraction of the price of the camera....just a few hundred dollars....
It ain't so....
Answer is... The Zoom will not pick up ambient noise if you turn it down all the way.
You are suffering a from a malaise that is spreading rapidly.....you can get excellent looking pictures ("HD" if you will) for not a whole lot of money.....and then decide that you want to do really excellent audio.. and it should be just a fraction of the price of the camera....just a few hundred dollars....
It ain't so....
Heres something i made with some of the advice you all gave me. appreciate it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAB0VQV8V1k
Just the other day I shot some pictures with the "best*" DSLR Canon EOS-5DII which also shoots terrific quality full HD video. Costs about $4000 with the 24-105mm/4 zoom. I also recorded some sound bites with the "best*" field recorder there is with the "best*" microphones in the "best*" wind protection: SD722/senn8020 AB-pair/ long Rycote zeppelin. This combo costs something like $6000 or more. Sound ain't cheap, in this case it was only 50% more expensive.
*) "best" in this case in not something I want or need to argue about, just to signify that getting something really and significantly better is not easy, possible or it is a matter of taste and personal preference. Getting something more expensive is easy...