Recording high school theater performance

S

SystemAgnostic

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So I recorded a high school play. I'm using an LX100 for a wide angle shot, and a 70d with a 50-150 2.8 lens to zoom and pan during the performance. My question is: the lighting varies tremendously between scenes, and indeed within one scene they may walk into and then away from a brighter part of the stage. For one performance i was on full manual, and tried to adjust ISO as the scene changed. Unfortunately, I sometimes blew out some of the performers. For another perfomance I tried to use program mode and just adjust the exposure compensation. On the LX100 I was able to change to center weighted metering, I think I can't change 70d metering during movies? But unfortunately that didn't work for the LX100 because I needed to compensate more than -3 when the actors where in a black background. So I went back to full manual on the LX100.

So, are there any tricks or clues?

My best guess is that if the camera allows for enough exposure compensation (-5, maybe even more), I can use program mode and basically adjust based on the background, which is little less work than trying to adjust to every lighting change. An external monitor would also help so I can see the overexposure zebras better. And I need to remember to always underexpose when in any doubt.
 
Bassman2003 said:
You are taking the hard way by using still cameras to record in a difficult environment. Dedicated video cameras with constant attention to running a manual iris is the best way to shoot theatrical shows.
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Excellent. I have a lot to learn. This is one of the manual controls on a professional camcorder I didn't know about. I'm going to look into the JVC GY-HM170UA and similar.
 
So I have a follow-up question. When changing ISO, i went from 200 up to 1600. So if I'm going to record and use manual iris - I would need to set the ISO to 1600 and then adjust just adjust the iris. I'd be at higher ISO for much of the performance just to capture the dark scenes. I'd lose picture quality. So I need to do some of each?

For example - on the JVC GY-HM170UA the ISO is just a gain switch (H/M/L), so in a bright scene, I'd keep gain on low, and use iris to fine tune, and in a dark scene I'd raise the gain and again use iris to fine tune? The transition points may be tough - I have to flick the switch and the iris simultaneously it seems. Or- I'd just always set gain on high, but again I'd lose picture quality.


 
You have a difficult problem that will require compromises. If you had the luxury of two cameras, you could have one at a low ISO and the other at a higher ISO. Then you could have two camera operators riding the iris for the best results. With one camera, it will have to be your best judgment regarding changing ISO. Its a matter of what kind of image you want to record. A dark shot isn't necessarily a bad thing.
 
Paul F said:
You have a difficult problem that will require compromises. If you had the luxury of two cameras, you could have one at a low ISO and the other at a higher ISO. Then you could have two camera operators riding the iris for the best results. With one camera, it will have to be your best judgment regarding changing ISO. Its a matter of what kind of image you want to record. A dark shot isn't necessarily a bad thing.
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Thanks Paul. That is a good point. Indeed, the once or twice I used ISO 1600 were night scenes, in hind sight I maybe should have left them darker. In general I was a reasonable ISO 200 - 500.
 
The easiest with two video cameras is to have the full stage camera running in AE shift with fixed shutter speed. That way it will use the best gain /iris combo. Then you could go full manual on the tracking camera or even run that in AE shift too. That way you will only need to frame and focus and bias the AE shift as needed. On Sony 's this is usually a wheel that can be turned as you watch the output.
 
Forgot to mention to fix the focus on the full stage camera too. The only time this approach has problems is if there is just one actor in spotlight on a dark stage. In this case the AE shift will open right up of course but if the tracking camera is following the action it should have this actor and even in AE shift will give a reasonable exposure if the actor fills the frame.
 
Thanks for the tips everyone. I think that I'll pickup a camcorder with professional features for the next play in December so I can experiment with AE shift and manual iris control. For this play, the background basically varied between a black curtain, or a painted set which was mostly white. So from scene to scene the automatic exposure would get quite confused. But I'll just have to experiment what works best for me.

Using the LX100 and changing ISO was not terrible - the steps when I changed it are a little noticeable, but I was able to keep exposure pretty decent. Next time I'll use a bigger screen so I can notice peaking better. The 70D however was a disaster - without a histogram or peaking, I underexposed everything way too much. If they were photos I could recover them, but not the video.

I generally ran my LX100 at aperture 2.8 and ISO 200 - 500, other than a couple dark scenes. It seems that camcorders have a base ISO of 400. Or gain =0 is about equivalent to ISO 400 on a camera. Is that true? So if the lens is 2.8 or faster, the lighting is sufficient to run at a gain of 0. So the picture should be essentially as good as can be (well, other than any lens limitations when run wide open). My Sony PJ-540 however had pretty bad image quality. The sensor on that is tiny - 1/5.8. So perhaps the base ISO isn't 400 on that camcorder?
 
Manual control is the only way to go when shooting theater. I do a lot of theater video using a pair of Panny AC-160a and sometimes a GH4. I use a VariZoom or Studio 1 controller mounted on the tripod's handle. This allows me to (using 2 hands) manually ride the Iris for controlling exposure, manually control the focus and with the work the zoom as needed with the butterfly/knob I can also follow the actors moves on stage with the tripod handle. Sounds like a lot to do, but with practice you can do it without looking down at the controller while following the action in a 7 inch monitor mounted on the camera's handle. I normally set the gain switch to 3/6/9 dB so I can start with 3 dB and if needed switch to 6 or 9 dB while shooting 1080/60P. I try to shoot at an exposure of 2.8f to 4f, that seems to give a depth of field deep enough so I do not have to ride the focus control. I also set my zebras to 70% for skin exposure levels and 100% for white shirts and blow out prevention.

Have fun shooting live theater, I just shot "Singing In The Rain", love the theater.
 
I too have Panasonic AG-Ac160A (only one, unfortunately) and the usual setup in the theater is 65 feet away, so I value the 22 x zoom. I would never leave the house without the Studio 1 controller.

I switched from a sticky tripod/head to a Libec tripod/head which I seem to be able to control with one finger

I have had bad results taking feeds from soundboards - the operators reasonably adjust for the audience not the video guy, so you can do a sound check, get everything just right only to find when the lights go down that your sound is too low or too high. I have a Tascam DR100 MK II but have recently started to salivate over a Zoom F8.
 
I too have Panasonic AG-Ac160A (only one, unfortunately) and the usual setup in the theater is 65 feet away, so I value the 22 x zoom. I would never leave the house without the Studio 1 controller.

I switched from a sticky tripod/head to a Libec tripod/head which I seem to be able to control with one finger

I have had bad results taking feeds from soundboards - the operators reasonably adjust for the audience not the video guy, so you can do a sound check, get everything just right only to find when the lights go down that your sound is too low or too high. I have a Tascam DR100 MK II but have recently started to salivate over a Zoom F8.
 
jtczere said:
Manual control is the only way to go when shooting theater. I do a lot of theater video using a pair of Panny AC-160a and sometimes a GH4. I use a VariZoom or Studio 1 controller mounted on the tripod's handle. This allows me to (using 2 hands) manually ride the Iris for controlling exposure, manually control the focus and with the work the zoom as needed with the butterfly/knob I can also follow the actors moves on stage with the tripod handle. Sounds like a lot to do, but with practice you can do it without looking down at the controller while following the action in a 7 inch monitor mounted on the camera's handle. I normally set the gain switch to 3/6/9 dB so I can start with 3 dB and if needed switch to 6 or 9 dB while shooting 1080/60P. I try to shoot at an exposure of 2.8f to 4f, that seems to give a depth of field deep enough so I do not have to ride the focus control. I also set my zebras to 70% for skin exposure levels and 100% for white shirts and blow out prevention.

Have fun shooting live theater, I just shot "Singing In The Rain", love the theater.
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I love the idea of two zebra levels. Thanks for the tip.

Regarding depth of field, the Panny AC-160a has a 1/3 sensor. I'd think that at theater distances (100+ feet) the depth of field will be huge? Unless I guess you zoom in to just see a person's head? (I never zoomed in more than full body)

How do you control the iris or exposure when shooting with the GH4?
 
With my JVCs, I rarely need to use extra gain, and the range of iris adjustment goes from fully open to may f8? I don;t worry too much about the dark spots because in theatre lighting design, there's one popular trend where you only light actors and never scenery, so lighting tends to be plotted at head height, so where it lands on floors and set can appear 'wrong', but is actually right. I tend to focus on a mid stage point - maybe a tape mark on the floor, and then use a white tape mark on the focus ring that I can see in the almost darkness.

I'd echo the comments about using the best tripod and head you can. The usual Manfrotto and similar heads that are popular just are not smooth enough to follow action, especially as directors always love diagonal blocking moves that mean pan and tilt always seem to be required. 90% of our work is in theatres, so we have pretty established systems to keep us out of trouble.
 
Hi, Paul

Most of what I do is archive theatre recordings - dvd sales are usually limited to members of the cast themselves and their families because of copyright.

I will be recording G&S The Gondoliers during May and would like to live stream it.

Most of the hosting sites want me to sign up for 12 months, which is not going to work.

Do you have any experience live-streaming theatre productions?

The AG-AC160A does have a lot of depth of field, even at 65 feet, so I pretty much set for mid-stage and live with that setting. I never only do heads. but mid body to top of heads for solos, duets etc relatively frequently.

If you have clips of theatre recordings on YouTube, I would love to take a look - I usually go three times 1) watch/take notes 2) practice tracking the actors 3) recording.

The lighting, as you say, is all over the place, I fine tune the iris setting from start to end.
 
https://youtu.be/qGKp_nWPiEM

Paul/KW:

Ditto the 22x lens on the ac160, I need that reach as the theater folks often assign a shooting location in the balcony far left side out, not he best location. I normally use a Rode shotgun mic to capture audio into the camera and use a Tascam 100 MK1 as a back up recorder also using a Rode mic. I have not had the best audio feeds from the Theater sound boards, as you said, the operator has his own audio agenda. The Rode Shotgun mics work well for me, so far no problems.

I am attaching a YouTube link for some theater video shot (Snip Clips John Czere) over the past 3 years, you can see the exposure moving up and down in some places as I was manually controlling the iris.

Also, I have not color corrected the music videos, stage lighting can be a real bear for your white balance. I have had good luck with my Sachtler tripod and head for making those smooth moves. Still learning how to shoot good video.
 
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