Recording from the DJ

D

DDirector

Veteran
Will be shooting private nightly events, 3 in a row starting this Friday!
This is last minute stuff, but maybe I can get some help.

There will be some big DJs playing throughout the 3 days and I want to record what they mix live.
so I can possibly use their mix for the promo video.

Is there a way to record it?
I have a Zoom H4n if that helps?
 
Technically: Sure you can connect the H4N to the DJ's system (if they allow it). You will need some cables/adapters depending on what
Legally: Almost certainly not. The chances that the DJ will be playing music that you can licence for your videos ranges from slim to none.
Unless you have really deep pockets or some personal connection with the copyright holder.
 
What cables do I need for it?
I know nothing about this.

I dont know what mixer they will have or be using until Im there.
 
DDirector said:
What cables do I need for it?
I know nothing about this.

I dont know what mixer they will have or be using until Im there.
Click to expand...
You need to find out so you can narrow down the possibilities. And as Richard pointed out, there's a distinct chance that either a: there's no available output for you to tie in to, or b: the DJ won't cooperate and allow you to ... after all it's not part of their job to provide you with signal. And then there're the legal issues about clearing the rights to the music even if you can record it.
 
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Ignoring the legal issues - (that will NOT be fun, as DJs have enough of their own problems getting copyright cleared for them to make mixes) - many clubs cut holes in panels and drop the mixers and kit into them. This means physically getting to the sockets, even if they are empty can be tricky - and I'd be very doubtful if they will let you pull stuff out of the panels. Some places will already have the record outputs wired to a recorder for the DJs use, recording his mixes. Maybe this recorder is easier to get to?
 
The most typical outputs that DJs can give you are RCA stereo or 1/4 headphone jack. Assuming you need a stereo mini for the Zoom, go to Radio Shack and they will have adapter plugs or short adapter cables with the appropriate ends. Over the years, I've built up a collection which allows me to connect just about anything to anything. When possible, I'll get the DJ contact info from the client ahead of time and call to introduce myself, and that's a good time to politely ask if you might be able to get a feed and find out what outputs they can offer. Otherwise, just approach them prior to the event start and see what happens. If you can't get a wired feed, some videographers will use a "drum mic" placed near the speaker and they connect that to a wireless mic transmitter to the camera.

Good luck

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor
 
DDirector said:
What cables do I need for it?
I know nothing about this.

I dont know what mixer they will have or be using until Im there.
Click to expand...

You cannot ignore the legality here.

Honestly, just run a camera mic for reference, then for the promo license some stock DJ music that matches the bpm.
 
Not to hammer to hard on the legal issues but I noticed you are in Canada, so you really do need to pay attention because unlike the US where it's a civil issue Canada makes it a criminal issue and you could face criminal charges if you use unlicensed music. We only face the possibility of loosing all our possessions in a law suit, you look at the possibility of doing time.

So please do check out the legal issues.
 
DDirector said:
...This was supposed to be a promo video for THEIR work.
Its fine. Forget it.
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I'm assuming the "THEIR" is the DJ's. DJ's don't need to get releases to play music (not exactly sure why not but they don't, or it's just never prosecuted). But when you use the same music in a video you step into the ugly world of "synchronization rights". It's a completely different set of rules. And just as hip hop producers found out using someone elses work to create your work doesn't make their work yours. So what the DJ is using to create their mixes is actually owned by someone else. Which makes for a giant mess legally. What it is similar to though is you recording your version of someone elses song. The recording and interpretation is yours but the actual song is someone elses. So you can not sell your version with out getting permission from the person who owns the song.

In your case you would have to get synchronization rights from both the DJ AND whoever owns the rights to EVERY piece of music they play.

Whether it's written in or just "the way it works" for live play of music you don't generally get any releases. You do have to though if it is a part of a show. So in theatre as a general rule "pre show" music isn't licensed or it is covered by a blanket release. But any music you use during the show needs a performance release. Practically most short run shows don't bother partly because by the time they would finally get the release the show is over. The cost is actually not usually the problem it's the time. In any longer running show you just have to do it. Which is part of the reason you will rarely find commercial songs in live shows that run any length. It can take weeks or months to get all the paperwork finalized and theatre doesn't usually have that kind of time between music choices and performance dates.

The short version is we are not trying to dump on you. It's complicated and most folks don't understand where the lines are. And we don't want you getting in trouble.
 
1) DJs cannot "perform" (a legal term which includes playback of pre-recorded music) music in public without proper licensing. There have been prosecutions for violation of this law.
Note that you can't perform music LIVE in public without proper licensing, either. And there have been prosecutions for this, also.
Public performance in schools and churches (at least in the USA) is treated as "exempt" (non-profit).
But public performance in concert halls, pubs, etc. are required to pay the appropriate royalties (typically by blanket licenses from performance rights societies, ASCAP, BMI, et.al.)
Most concert halls bundle this with your cost of renting the hall. And pubs who know better pay annual license fees.

2) A producer of a film/video is typically ALSO LIABLE for violation of copyright law even if they are making the work for someone else.
They are expected to know better than to used unlicensed content. Many "wedding videographers" have learned this the hard way.
At least in the USA, acquiring a sync license for most popular music (or even recordings of public domain music) is difficult and expensive.
Some other countries (I thought Canadia was one of them) have much more sensible sync licensing mechanisms (like for mechanical licensing in USA).

As for the technical question, this is what I keep in my kit of tricks for interfacing to venue systems:
1) Combination isolation transformer and variable level attenuator: http://www.rolls.com/product.php?pid=DB25b
2) Bag of cables and adapters to accommodate:
CONNECTORS:
* XLR (typically male, but be prepared for female as well)
* 1/4 inch phone (typically female) you will encounter both balanced (TRS) and unbalanced (TS)
* RCA phono ("Cinch") outputs (typically female)
SIGNAL LEVELS
* Mic level (typically XLR, balanced)
* Professional Line level (+4dB) typically balanced, XLR or 1/4 inch)
* Consumer line level (-10dB) typically RCA or 1/4 inch unbalanced.
3) Also be prepared to interface to headphone outputs, but they are typically not as high quality, and may be subject to signal interruption from soloing, etc.
Headphones are typically TRS unbalanced stereo. Either 1/4 inch or 3/5mm mini phone.
The signal level is roughly "line level" and can be treated as such.
4) Sometimes it might be necessary to tap into a speaker line. I believe the Rolls DB25b is actually capable of handling that.


If I were making a promo video for a DJ, I would ask to see their proof of license before proceeding.
I would also NOT be concerned about capturing the feed from their system as they already have the original recordings which can be dropped in during edting.
I would much rather concentrate on recording the AMBIENCE, the effect of the DJ's performance on the audience.
 
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A bit more info on this.

Info on US and DJ licensing

And one that covers other countries including Canada

So in the US it's the club that is expected to get the blanket license for live playback and in Canada it's the DJ who needs to get a blanket license.

In both cases that does not cover distribution of any kind such as a recording. It is actually illegal to record the mix even if you are not distributing it,

Anyway The exception to schools and churches mentioned above is not legally the case, though practically it may be.

Churches I don't know (but would be really surprised if there was an exemption) but schools there isn't.
And actually I doubt that these folks or these folks would be in business if churches were exempt since their entire business is licensing of music for church services.
**** Correction*****
This is more clear
There is a religious service exemption in U.S. copyright law that allows churches to perform copyrighted music during religious services without paying royalties. The exemption does not cover any music played or performed outside of worship services. If your church is playing or performing copyrighted music outside of your religious services, you need a church performance license. - See more at: http://www.christiancopyrightsolutions.com/services/performmusic/#sthash.ApMwYFQS.dpuf
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I've done a fair number of shows in the university system and they have blanket agreements with ASCAP and or BMI. They primarily get them so the marching bands are not limited to Sousa marches, but it washes over to other events and is what covers pre-show music. School districts generally also have a blanket agreement, again largely for the marching bands (we in the US are much more supportive of sports than the arts...).

The "exception" than does come in is that you can use copyrighted material for teaching purposes under "fair use". That however does not extend to performances. Even back in the dark ages when I was in school my middle school music teacher had to buy copies and not make copies of music (a year before a teacher had been fired over "illegally" copying sheet music for a class, though I think copying for in class use now does fall under "fair use"), and all the scores and such for the high school musical had to be licensed and rented through the publisher.

Which just goes to show you how complicated this can get since both of us are pretty experienced and pay attention to such things and we still got parts wrong!

The bottom line is that there is almost no way to play anything legally with out a license. It doesn't mater why, or who you are or if you are making any money or not or if it's for a good cause.

People do do it and some "get away" with it, often with out knowing they are "getting away" with anything. This happens more in situations where there is little enforcement or it's just bad press to go after folks. But you can't count on it and just because you don't have lawyers pounding on your door doesn't mean it's legal. Just that today they had someone else to fry. Or your 15 youTube hits didn't hit the radar.
 
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Thank you , Scott. I was not clear with what I said about public performance school/church exemption. I was talking about LIVE performance, not pre-recorded playback.
And remember that copying sheet music is a VERY DIFFERENT thing than performance. Different laws apply to the printed copies vs. the live performance.
So while there is a de-facto exemption for live performance in schools, it DOES NOT apply to copying/printing the scores for that same music.

A new business-model "rights society" (http://www.ccli.com/) has sprung up to consolidate various licensing for churches, etc. (typically reproducing lyrics in handouts/bulletins and projection on Imag screens)
But if you look at most modern sheet music scores, you will find a large notice that reminds us that "CCLI License DOES NOT include permission to copy the score."
But CCLI has branched out to include licensing for use of clips of movies, TV shows, etc. for illustrative purposes. And licensing for live streaming, etc.
 
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I'm not sure what schools are getting live performance rights exemptions but they are none that I know of. UC system buys blanket coverage for both playing and live performance. It was a huge issue in the 70's when the copyright was retroactively lengthened for music and marching bands suddenly couldn't play anything written after in their parents life time. So since then districts and universities get blanket coverage just for live performance. But that doesn't cover theatrical productions. If your doing a musical you pay both for the rights to perform the play and for the rights to perform the music.
 
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