Recording a -20db safty track question.

D

derbrocks09

Well-known member
I really like the idea of splitting the XLR out of a mic and recording it two tracks. My question is do I need to run it into two channels of my mixer or can I run one channel on my mixer and split the line out into two tracks of the recorder. I'm assuming that the answer is its better to run two channels on the mixer so the noise floor is consistent but wanted to check. I'd rather not tie up two mixer channels if I could.

Anyone have any thoughts on this they would like to share?

Thanks in advance
 
This is the kind of application where I would just use a bog-simple Y-cable.
If you really wanted to be clever and you did a lot of this, you could throw a 20dB pad in one side of the Y.
 
Richard Crowley said:
This is the kind of application where I would just use a bog-simple Y-cable.
If you really wanted to be clever and you did a lot of this, you could throw a 20dB pad in one side of the Y.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. That's what I plan to do. Use a Y cable. But do I use it pre mixer (from the mic into the mixer) or post mixer into the recorder?
 
microphone - 1 channel on your mixer - pan more to the left (if possible, otherwise lower at camera) - output L + R of mixer into L + R of recorder.
 
Rippie said:
microphone - 1 channel on your mixer - pan more to the left (if possible, otherwise lower at camera) - output L + R of mixer into L + R of recorder.
Click to expand...
'
Thanks! That's a great solution but I want to record more than two tracks to a Tascam 680 or the like. So panning won't accomplish what I'm after.
 
Can only go by what you write.
With this added information, it would also be good to know what your mixer is.
I assume if you are running multiple sources through it to a multi track recorder it must have either iso outs, or you're using insert outs to send
iso's?
 
Personally, and this is straying from your question so use it as you will.
With the 552 having good input limiters (which would cover you for iso outs)
I don't see why you need to do a lower level 2nd channel.

If you're not confident with your skills, set your iso's a tad bit lower than usual, and ride your faders/mix out of the 552
hotter.
 
well you are right. I'm not confident of my skills and with the low cost of 8 track recorders I thought this would help cover my butt.

I think I understand what you are saying. lower the ISO's going out of the 552 a bit and then just mix hotter. But how does that help? I'm confused. If I screw up and clipp anything I'm still screwed aren't I?

What am I missing here?

BTW Thanks for all the help Rippie. Sorry if I'm being a kinda slow newbie. LOL
 
Derbrocks09,

You eluded in your op to doing this within your recorder which is another very decent way to do this. Most recorders have a mono option which will take the input from one mic and record it to a stereo pair. Set one of the tracks higher or lower by the amount you want and badabing.

Grant
 
ggrantly said:
Derbrocks09,

You eluded in your op to doing this within your recorder which is another very decent way to do this. Most recorders have a mono option which will take the input from one mic and record it to a stereo pair. Set one of the tracks higher or lower by the amount you want and badabing.

Grant
Click to expand...

Sweet! Thanks. Will the Tascam DR680 allow me to do this?
 
If you set everything up properly, before your recorder could clip the 552 input limiters will engage making it impossible for your recorder to clip.

Of course you don't want to slam those limiters or it will sound like poo, but once again if you set everything up
right you would rarely if ever make the input limiters turn on.

Your iso volume is only set using the trim (small knobs, pre fader on the 552)
If you adjust those so your recorder is getting a decent signal thats all you need to worry about.
Don't worry about getting super super close to zero on your recorder.

Your mix tracks from the 552 (using the faders) can then go into your recorder.
because you will be paying closer attention to these faders and actually mixing you can send a hotter signal
to those mix tracks on the recorder. Of course as a benefit you also have the output limiters on the 552.

If you record to 24bit you don't have to worry too much about lower volume iso tracks. (it's cleaner than 16bit)


Once again this is just a suggestion on how its usually done in this situation.
If you still want to use 2 distinct tracks on your recorder PER microphone, Y it after the mixer and adjust volumes
on the recorder to taste. Personally I find this silly in this particular situation, as it also complicates things a number of different ways,
but if thats what you want to do, go for it.
 
derbrocks,

The DR-100 does this for sure. I was just checking the manual on the DR680 which I have only had a few weeks. Look on pages 25-27. I'm not quite sure what it is telling me. I can check this out more later tonight.

Grant
 
I'm not a fan of recording a safety track at a lower level. When the pic editor gets it they will most likely mix the 2 tracks and you will get a call about your audio not sounding good.
 
ggrantly said:
derbrocks,

The DR-100 does this for sure. I was just checking the manual on the DR680 which I have only had a few weeks. Look on pages 25-27. I'm not quite sure what it is telling me. I can check this out more later tonight.

Grant
Click to expand...

The DR680 will do this. Set up a stereo mix for two tracks and use the pan feature to trim as desired from the single input. This isn't as easy as the DR100 since it has a mono setting for stereo recording so you don't have to fiddle with panning, just adjust the trim for each channel. The DR100 has a better meter display also. The benefit of this method for your safety track is that it doesn't require any extra cabling or mixer wrangling. Testing with a RE50, I couldn't hear any difference in the noise floor via headphones. No doubt, there would be some difference when uploaded to your DAW.

Grant
 
ggrantly said:
The DR680 will do this. Set up a stereo mix for two tracks and use the pan feature to trim as desired from the single input. This isn't as easy as the DR100 since it has a mono setting for stereo recording so you don't have to fiddle with panning, just adjust the trim for each channel. The DR100 has a better meter display also. The benefit of this method for your safety track is that it doesn't require any extra cabling or mixer wrangling. Testing with a RE50, I couldn't hear any difference in the noise floor via headphones. No doubt, there would be some difference when uploaded to your DAW.

Grant
Click to expand...


GREAT! Problem solved. Thanks Grant for checking that for me. Looks like a 680 is in my future.
 
Derbrocks,

Make sure if you intend to do this, you take enough time before the scenes begin to test the levels. The DR680 doesn't have good enough metering to verify a specific difference in gain. The metering is ok for peaking, just not establishing a differential.

Grant
 
By the way, the originasl message referred to a -20dB safety track. If you do go with a safety track 20dB difference is way excessive. 3 or 6 dB is more than enough.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top