Recorder to match up with mixpre

markblasco

markblasco

Well-known member
Recently I purchased a Mixpre to add in front of my H4N. I'm now finding that it's going to be a pain in the butt to do this without buying extra attenuators to make it work.

Is there another recorder in the same price range that doesn't require any adapters or attenuators in order to plug the Mixpre directly in? Will the Marantz or Tascam recorders accept a proper line input?

At this point, with all of the discussion about the H4N and other recorders, I may just be better off going with something different and selling the H4N rather than investing more money into attenuators.
 
I had that same problem, it helps running a 1/8" cable from the MixPre (tape out) to the H4n, but you also just need to lower the limiter threshold on the MixPre a bit.

The issue is professional line level (+4dBu) and consumer line level (-10dBV). Different formats, and it think pro sound gear is ~11 dB hotter so it clips when run into consumer gear like the H4n.

A PMD-661 can handle +4dBu line level, not sure on other cheaper devices.
 
I've used the Tape Out on the MixPre to the 1/4" TS line ins on a Fostex FR-2LE and have had not problems with it.
 
Alex H. said:
I've used the Tape Out on the MixPre to the 1/4" TS line ins on a Fostex FR-2LE and have had not problems with it.
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Yeah, the Fostex unit is definitely on my watch list, but it's also out of my price range right now, unless I can find a used one. I'm looking for something at around the same price as the H4N, so that I could sell my H4N and buy the new unit, and the difference in what I have to spend ends up being about the same price as the attenuating cables.
 
Honestly, there's not much in the hand-held recorder category that is going to give you what you're looking for. The TASCAM DR100 is probably a better bet than the H4n, and the Marantz PMD661 is well above that. But once you're looking at something in the price range of the 661, you might as well look at the FR-2LE or the TASCAM DR-680 or HD-P2.

You can sometimes find a good deal on a used Fostex either here in the Marketplace or on other sound-related forums. Even check eBay, just for chuckles.
 
Alex H. said:
Honestly, there's not much in the hand-held recorder category that is going to give you what you're looking for. The TASCAM DR100 is probably a better bet than the H4n, and the Marantz PMD661 is well above that. But once you're looking at something in the price range of the 661, you might as well look at the FR-2LE or the TASCAM DR-680 or HD-P2.

You can sometimes find a good deal on a used Fostex either here in the Marketplace or on other sound-related forums. Even check eBay, just for chuckles.
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Yeah, I checked ebay and they were going for over what they go for new!

I know that Tascam and Marantz both have recorders in the $300 range, but I don't know whether or not you can plug a mixpre directly into them. You can't do it correctly with the H4N, but if you can do it with one of the other recorders, I'd like to know.
 
So what happens when you plug it in? Does it clip straight away? I'm genuinely curious because I've been plugging a Sound Devices MM1 into the original zoom H4 (not H4n) without any noticeable issues.
edit: to clarify thats the XLR out from MM1 to line level XLR in on H4
 
The output on the mixpre is too hot for the H4N, so before the signal has a chance to hit the mixpre limiters, it has already distorted on the H4N, even at the lowest gain setting.
 
markblasco said:
The output on the mixpre is too hot for the H4N, so before the signal has a chance to hit the mixpre limiters
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I think you might misunderstand the signal path. The limiters in question are built into the MixPre, and adjustable with a small screwdriver. So the sound hits the limiters before it gets to the H4n.

And with a slightly lowered input limiter on the MixPre, connecting to the H4n via "Tape Out" of the MixPre, the combo works just fine. I've used it for almost two years, and the limiters set to act as a safety net such that it's unclippable on the H4n.
 
I don't have the Zoom so I'm not sure what it's ins are but the MixPre is line out only but it has both a -10 and a +4 out so it should be fine with anything that has a line in. I use it with the Marantz PMD 671 and have used it with other devices. It's not some unusually hot output. Now if your connecting it's +4 line outs (XLR) to somethings Mic Ins (XLR) then yest it's going to blow it out of the water but that is because you connected it wrong. If the Zoom has a line in then I'm pretty sure it would be -10 so you need to be using the MixPre's "tape out" 1/8" connector to whatever the line in is on the Zoom.

If you search I know there is at least one thread that goes over how you set the MixPre up so your recorder is clip proof. After that you do all your level adjustments with the MixPre.
 
I don't have a Zoom either so I might be wrong on this but I think the problem is that the TS "line" inputs aren't really line level but 'instrument' level, more sensitive than either +4 or even -10 line levels but not so sensitive as a true mic level. It's really designed to accept guitar and keyboard pickups, not true line level sources. Even the -10 output of the Mixpre is too hot and needs some padding to be a proper match
 
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Steve House said:
I don't have a Zoom either so I might be wrong on this but I think the problem is that the TS "line" inputs aren't really line level but 'instrument' level, more sensitive than either +4 or even -10 line levels but not so sensitive as a true mic level. It's really designed to accept guitar and keyboard pickups, not true line level sources. Even the -10 output of the Mixpre is too hot and needs some padding to be a proper match
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Yes, and this is why I am asking if other recorders in the same price range have proper line inputs or not.

I have not tried using the tape out and dialing down the limiters, since everything I've read online (and I've done a lot of searching), including comments from the people at Sound Devices, has said to get everything to work properly you need to have an attenuator. I'll give that a try this weekend.
 
You might consider a Tascam DR-07, which you can buy used on ebay for well under $100. I have had success using the tape output of the SD 302 mixer into the line input of the DR-07 with good results. I have also used mic levels from the 302 into the mic input of the DR-07, also with good results.
 
Has anyone mentioned the Sony D-50? Clean gain, LINE input, sounds awesome. Take the tape out (3.5mm) from the MixPre, and go into the D-50. Bam.
 
Steve House said:
I don't have a Zoom either so I might be wrong on this but I think the problem is that the TS "line" inputs aren't really line level but 'instrument' level, more sensitive than either +4 or even -10 line levels but not so sensitive as a true mic level. It's really designed to accept guitar and keyboard pickups, not true line level sources. Even the -10 output of the Mixpre is too hot and needs some padding to be a proper match
Click to expand...

Ah well that would suck. Actually that would take the Zoom right off my list of functional recorders.
 
I would steer away from Zoom on this, because of timing issues that the Zoom recorders all seem to have (their sample rates are slightly off... enough to make syncing a problem for long clips).

I've used a MicroTrack with success, in the distant past...

I don't think you mentioned what you'd be recording... if you are recording music or certain types of sound effects, keep in mind that the MixPre has a pretty low input clipping level, which caused me problems recording music with relatively hot mics...
 
Steve House said:
I don't have a Zoom either so I might be wrong on this but I think the problem is that the TS "line" inputs aren't really line level but 'instrument' level, more sensitive than either +4 or even -10 line levels but not so sensitive as a true mic level. It's really designed to accept guitar and keyboard pickups, not true line level sources. Even the -10 output of the Mixpre is too hot and needs some padding to be a proper match
Click to expand...

Well, what I've done is run "Tape Out" from the MixPre into the 1/8" line in on the H4n. I tested the 1khz tone from the MixPre and that shows up at -12 dBFS, with the H4n's input set at 1.0 (lowest without compression). The MixPre tone is at 0 dBu, and the limiters are normally set to +18dBu (expected 20dB of headroom above tone). What I did is adjust the limiters of the MixPre down to ~ +8 or 10, so that it hits the limiters at lower levels, before it clips at the H4n.
This is not ideal, and adjusting the MixPre limiters is really a pain (the MixPre-D made this a software adjustment so it's easier to fine tune).

Honestly though, unless you need 4 channel recording (I did for recording cars at the time), it's not worth it if you plan on using an external preamp. But it can work, with the correct adjustments.
 
Noiz2 said:
Ah well that would suck. Actually that would take the Zoom right off my list of functional recorders.
Click to expand...

That's actually where Zoom really screwed up when updating the original H4. They improved so many other things... and then destroyed the line-in compatibility. I used an H4 for years, taking the 1/8" TRS tape out from my mixer to the dual 1/4" TS inputs and it was perfectly clean. The pre-amps were dreadful, but as a line recorder it was fantastic.
 
hi all
i have a pmd661 (super oade mod) and i 'm planing to add a mixpre-d (limiters, independent knobs, ...)
what do you think the better way (quality based) to join both?
regards
 
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