Recorder / general accessory help and advice

G

Grahamrobbins5

Active member
Hey guys,

Ok so when the scarlet launched I was banging my head on the wall trying to decide if I still wanted to purchase an f3 I even priced out a nice scarlet package. I was obsessing on technical nonsense to the point of exhaustion. The other day it finally occurred to me that it makes no sense to buy a camera just because of a small technical edge. I woke up so to speak, and my DP senses kicked in and I realized I should be buying a camera that produces an image I like and can control, and that the commercial production companies I work with will have an easy quick post pipeline.

I think I've come to the conclusion that the 4k r3d files just won't be easy enough to work with for most of the commercial production houses I shoot for. Plus I do know plenty of red epic, and scarlet owners if I ever need to rent one. Thus I am back figuring out my Sony f3 package. I have a few questions that I could use answers for that will help me in moving forward.

First what I know I want, is an f3 with Slog, and an external recorder that will give me the ability to record 10bit pro res. I love the soft look that slog gives the over all image.

Ok and now here are my questions:
1. As far as recorders go what are the key differences between the ki pro mini, and the Samurai? Can they both record 1080p 4.2.2 pro res? I had heard the samurai could only record 1080i. If they both can record 1080p pro res why would one pay more for the ki pro mini? Does it have to do with the fact that it records to cf cards vs hard drives?
2. What is the best place to purchase the slog upgrade b&h says they are back ordered and it could take several weeks?
3. Does anyone have any good reviews for base plate/ dovetail settups that are not crazy expensive and work well with the f3?
4. Also I'm not a big matte box guy I tend to like the flare in what I shoot, and I don't use much filtration. but Im going to buy a mid range matte box with this camera. Does anyone have a recommendation I just don't want something to huge.
5. How are the Sony batteries for this camera? Do they last for a decent amount or should I buy an Anton Bauer system? I'm just use to red epic and the red volts suck. So I usually just assume stock batteries to be bad haha.
6. What's a good EVF for the camera? I was thinking small hd dp4 because I love the sharpness of the dp6.
7. Finally I'm looking to purchase some older pl glass. Anyone have a recommended place that they buy used pl lenses?

I think that's pretty much everything. If I'm missing any main accessories that I should factor in please let me know. Also if you guys have an opinion on getting an f3 instead of a Scarlet and think that I should reconsider something I would love to hear it. I've been sitting on 25k, I've been looking to invest into a camera package for a while now and I'm ready to pull the trigger, but I also don't want to make a bad choice as I need this camera to make me money in the commercial world I've been working in.

I really appreciate any and all feedback.

Thanks,

Graham R.
 
Don't get me wrong, but with 25K in the pocket you can spend an hour or two on this board and get ALL answers on your questions. Every topic has been covered numerous times... Good luck!

P.S.
Two things should be on your list for F3: Berkey plate and ProLock Nikon mount... Just saying...
 
+1 on the Berkey plate and Prolock. Add this http://www.abelcine.com/store/Swit-S-7210U-Pole-to-4-pin-XLR-Connector-for-Sony-F3/

The Ki Pro Mini and Samurai will all record ProRes HQ 4.2.2. The differences are mostly in the recording media and inputs. The SDI signal is progressive buried within a 60i signal. The recorders remove pulldown and record a 24p or 30p signal.

KPM is CF cards only (so short recording times) but has full XLR mic inputs and converts full in and out of SDI and HDMI. It also requires higher voltage.
Samurai is SSD and SATA drives (longer recording times) but only had SDI and only has 1/4" audio. (SDI carries audio) Very thrifty on batteries.

You're probably going to want to power several devices (camera, monitor or EVF, recorder, etc) so a standard Sony battery won't cut it. ABs are one nice system. The other alternatives are greater than 90 watt hour batteries with a D-tap such as http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PMW-EX...137?pt=Batteries_Chargers&hash=item41551e8e69 (I'm not recommending that particular battery, just that type.)

This cable is also very helpful for extra accessories http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/761636-REG/Switronix_PT_XF3_PowerTap_Male_to_Female.html

So far all the EVFs seem not quite there (resolution or IO wise) and good monitors like the TVLogic 5.6" WP don't have a loupe. Everyone is waiting for someone to produce one that has it all.
 
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Again, questions that can be researched with the search button for more detailed discussions.

I am partial to the Pix240 because of sturdy construction, all flavors of ProRes and multiple DNxHD codecs.

Glass is all over the place. I bought an old Lomo 37-140 zoom which you can find on eBay for usually $600-900. Also bought a Red 18-50. You have to assess your needs. What works for me is zooms as "variable primes."

I use both the Switronix batteries as well as Dionic 90's.
 
Your questions are as difficult as the questions asked on the meaning of life. I am still agonizing over those same questions after my purchase.

For your purchase you need to talk to a sales person knowledgeable about the questions you asked. I’ve been buying gear for years starting with Camera-Mart in NYC, I feel right now the best place to answer your questions and give you the best prices is Abel-Cine. I’m not saying they are the last word on the subject of what to purchase and who to purchase from, you need to do your home work and research your questions as you are doing now on the forums.

The Ki Pro Mini, Sound Devices and Samurai are good recorders, I own the Ki Pro mainly because it was the only recorder that would do 10 bit 4:2:2 when I bought it. I think with all this new gear coming to market you want to stick with a company that is established and will give you good customer service after your purchase.

Duke M is absolutely right about power systems, when you power a camera such as a Sony 900 or Panasonic 2000, the camera, recorder, viewfinder are all unified using one power source. When the battery runs down the camera warns you and finally the unit shuts down. You stop recording because the camera has stopped working.

I believe your most important purchase decision is what to power your F3 rig with.

When you are on the shoulder with an F3 rig, the camera, recorder and viewfinder are separate units requiring separate power connections to each to function. The Ki Pro Mini will shut down before the F3 shuts down on a low battery and when you are on the shoulder unless you have a very attentive sound person you will not know. AJA has announced a fix for this that we KPM owners are all waiting on. With an F3 rig as described above you will be drawing close to 50W, 24W for the camera, up to 18W for the Ki Pro mini and another 5W for the viewfinder. A single 90WH battery will do the job and run everything but as I said when the battery runs low not everything will shut down at the same time. Powering your rig with individual batters for each subsystem is a pain requiring separate chargers and requiring you to juggle different batteries throughout a shoot. IMHO I feel one good hi wattage battery running my rig works best, so right now I’m using Anton Bauer’s HCX 120WH batteries.

The only other advice I can give is do a thorough search of your questions on this forum, the answers are here you just have to pick the ones that work best for you.
 
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Not to go off topic, but since I saw this, thought I had better clarify:
"The Ki Pro Mini will shut down before the F3 shuts down on a low battery and when you are on the shoulder unless you have a very attentive sound person you will not know. AJA has announced a fix for this that we KPM owners are all waiting on."

Just to be clear here: we announced a super out option that will allow you to see the transport state (whether you are in record and the timecode) so that even if the Ki Pro Mini is behind your shoulder and you are wired to a monitor or EVF you will be able to discern the state of things. Second, we can't change the voltage requirement for the device, but we have attempted to give our low battery/voltage warning as soon as possible. Keep in mind that when batteries near their depletion they can "sag"; particularly when a number of items are drawing off of them at the same time.

In the example given, the camera likely idles at 28 watts (and operates higher), the Ki Pro Mini maxes out at 18 watts and is usually operating at a lower watt draw, and the monitor may be at a draw that is higher than 5 watts. So if you round up these numbers, even slightly, you notice that if you are using a 90 watt hour rated battery close to it's max. You could "cliff off" fast here once you are at just above 12 volt, and the Ki Pro Mini requires no less than 12 volt. The suggestion to use a higher powered battery, like a 120 watt hour, is a good one if all devices are to be powered from one source. So just to be clear, there isn't a "magic bullet" coming from AJA for voltage; just a super out from the Ki Pro Mini to let you know the state of things and an effort to improve the warning time when low voltage occurs.

Again, sorry to derail this thread at all, but wanted to respond for the sake of accuracy.

Hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
 
Sorry, QA on the release has just taken longer than we expected; this happens sometimes when you are introducing a large number of new features. We apologize for the delay. The version 3.0 firmware release is imminent.

Thanks for your patience,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
 
Looks like Hyperdeck Shuttle (not only Studio) also has DNxHD recording now.
BM calls it now Shuttle 2 (just because firmware is v2)
 
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