Recommendations, for external recorders needed

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David_

Active member
It is too frustrating to work with hard-to-edit codecs. Therefore I want to get an external recorder that will record ProRes. I want the recorder to have a swappable hard drive bay. What's recommended?

Lightweight, easily mountable on a rig. And is there a way to take power from the DVX to run it?

Will I be able to still record at the same time onto the SD cards as a back-up?

What is the best way to connect, HDMI or SDI?

I am looking at Atomos products--which seem more for the DSLR crowd--and at BlackMagic products.

I don't think I need a viewer, just the recording function. I can use the viewer on the DVX obviously, but is there any advantage to the recording units that come with a viewer?

What experience, plus and minus, do you all have?

Thanks.
 
Also, I want to externally record audio AND video, not just video. I will be editing on Macs and PCs, using Premiere and Lightworks.
 
There are a ton of YouTube videos demonstrating the Atomos Shogun with the DVX200 in ProRes. Seems to work great. I recommend you search there for your testing examples.
In short, I wouldn't assume the Atomos is only for DSLR...works great with the DVX200.
 
I'm not too sure about people's definition of run and gun, anymore. lol

Anyway, the only field monitor/recorder that fits the specs of DVX200 (and my budget) are the Video Devices PIX-E5 and E7. They can record up to 120fps in FHD and are capable of recording DCI 4K, their build quality is supposedly exceptional and a comparable Atomos product would be much more expensive.

SDI might have the superior connection, but all the good stuff with DVX200 travels through the HDMI...including sound, 4K-ness and timecode. The benefit of having the video monitor on the external recorder might come when needing to view and manage recorded clips in the field,but really it's all about getting that monitor on a noga arm and putting it anywhere you want so you can operate comfortably from any angle.

Also, not sure what your external audio recorder is, but I use a Tascam DR-701D and it's pretty sweet. No compatible record triggers from the camera but, if you get it to work, TC sync over HDMI works nicely and conforms easily in FCPX...and I've seen it work well in Premiere.
 
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There is a way to get the record trigger to output to other devices from the DVX200, it can trigger the Odyssey7Q+. I don't know if the Odyssey fits your vision of a doc shooter's recorder, but it does DCI 4K, records in ProRes, has an excellent monitor, records audio and can power off of the same battery type used by the camera. While larger it is also lighter than many of the others. The Odyssey7Q+ is also the only recorder to offer dual SSD slots, which means that you can potentially record for up to twice as long as any other device. If you would like to record audio to a separate outboard recorder (I'm confused but don't think that was part of the original post) then Odyssey will also pass through the record trigger it receives from the camera so that you could daily chain it to the audio recorder. You can do this with an SDI trigger or a timecode trigger.
 
Larry Chapman said:
"Has a mode that ensures acceptable video in varying conditions within seconds of powering it on."?
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That's either the full auto button, or a skilled owner/operator who knows his camera extremely well. If it's really just a reference to the first then I don't "run and gun," as the kids say. :D

Back OT: Odyssey7Q+ is only slightly more expensive than the Pix-E7, looks very well built and has some excellent options. It doesn't seem to do 120fps, but it will do uncompressed 12 bit DPX if you need to go crazy. The LUT integration also looks appealing.
 
David_ said:
Therefore I want to get an external recorder that will record ProRes. I want the recorder to have a swappable hard drive bay. What's recommended?
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Swappable as in, simply exchangeable? Or exchangeable during recording (which would require two bays)? If you want to swap during recording, I think the Odyssey is the only one that can do that.

Lightweight, easily mountable on a rig.
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After somewhat extensive testing, my recommendation is the Sound Devices PIX-E5H. It's inexpensive, indestructible, brilliant, very small, and is a nearly perfect companion to the DVX200.


And is there a way to take power from the DVX to run it?
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Probably not. The only power outlet on the DVX200 is the USB3 jack. It'll charge a phone, but it won't run a recorder. You can get batteries for the DVX200 that have their own power outlets, but I doubt the battery could withstand the voltage discharge necessary to run both a recorder and the camera.


Will I be able to still record at the same time onto the SD cards as a back-up?
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Yes, but your external recording would be limited to 8-bit in that case. If you want to record 10-bit and also have a simultaneous SD card backup, the way to go would be (again) the Sound Devices PIX recorders, because with the latest firmware changes they now support recording ProRes on their drive and simultaneously an h.264 copy on their SD cards. So it wouldn't be an internal recording on the DVX at that point, it'd be two external recordings made by the PIX.


What is the best way to connect, HDMI or SDI?
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If you're recording HD, and your recorder has an SDI port, then by all means use the SDI port. But if you need to record 4K or UHD, the HDMI is your only option.

I am looking at Atomos products--which seem more for the DSLR crowd--and at BlackMagic products.
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I know I'm sounding like a broken record. I have looked into all the recorders from the four major manufacturers, and I repeat my prior recommendation: I strongly recommend you consider the PIX line. They're brilliant.
 
Thank you everyone. The Atomos devices are able to display HDR and make it easier to expose V-LOG files. This is not something I presently do. But it sounds like a great feature of the Atomos.

I assume that while Atomos has the nice HDR display feature, the PIX and Atomos devices both will record V-LOG if I ever need it.

I said "swappable" uptop, but I don't need to swap during recording; I just want to film a project onto a drive and if I need more space in the field, stop recording and "swap" drives.

Thanks again, all. I think the PIX-E5H will do it for me. I like that it is small and easy to use, and reputed to be built well. Prices of things are all in the same ball park. I think the PIX-E5H requires a few more accessories than the Atomos devices and Atomos has a $200-$300 rebate going, so cost even out maybe.

I'll go for the solid, simple, small device.
 
One note about 120 fps full HD recording, even though both the Video Devices PIX line and the 4K-capable Atomos recorders are capable of recording 1080p @ 120 fps, I don't know of any cameras to-date that output this frame rate as an uncompressed video signal over HDMI (or SDI for that matter). As far as I know, even the Panasonic and Sony cameras that are capable of recording 1080p120 internally, will only output 1080p60 over HDMI or SDI, which means that that is all you'll be able to capture via an external recorder.

Although the HDMI spec does include provision for 1080p120 modes, for some reason no cameras seem to output this format just yet.

The only way I know of to get more than 60 fps out of a camera's video ports is via the RAW output supported by some cameras (like the Sony FS line, for example).
 
davedv said:
One note about 120 fps full HD recording, even though both the Video Devices PIX line and the 4K-capable Atomos recorders are capable of recording 1080p @ 120 fps, I don't know of any cameras to-date that output this frame rate as an uncompressed video signal over HDMI (or SDI for that matter). As far as I know, even the Panasonic and Sony cameras that are capable of recording 1080p120 internally, will only output 1080p60 over HDMI or SDI, which means that that is all you'll be able to capture via an external recorder.

Although the HDMI spec does include provision for 1080p120 modes, for some reason no cameras seem to output this format just yet.

The only way I know of to get more than 60 fps out of a camera's video ports is via the RAW output supported by some cameras (like the Sony FS line, for example).
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the DVX200 record VFR at whatever actual ending framerate you want? For instance, I can record a 24fps clip at 120fps, same with a 30fps or a 60fps clip at 120fps. The DVX200 doesn't actually record a clip that is genuinely 120fps. So, this wouldn't be an issue, correct? My terminology isn't that of an expert, but I've used 120fps enough to know that the file itself is already slo-mo once it's saved to the camera. I can speed up the clip to 200% or more to get a real-time look, but the VFR-recorded clip at 100% speed is slo-mo already. Maybe I'm in over my head here.
 
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The point I was making is that you are not going to be able to get all 120 frames per second out to an external recorder. If the DVX200 records 120fps internally to a 60fps clip (yielding 2x slow motion), that's fine. You'll still end up with 120 captured frames for every second of real time you were recording, and the total length of the clip will be twice as long as the amount of real time you were actually recording. But since the camera is only capable of outputting 60 fps out of its HDMI or SDI port, it will have to drop half of the frames when outputting externally. So on the external recorder you would end up with 60 captured frames for every second of external recording (even if the in-camera recording has 120 frames for ever second).

This is a limitation of the camera, rather than a limitation of the external recorder. Many of the external recorders are capable of accepting and recording a 1080p120 signal, however, no cameras I know of will actually output this natively. So this ends up being a nice bullet point on the sell sheet for the external recorder that isn't all that useful in practice.
 
davedv said:
The point I was making is that you are not going to be able to get all 120 frames per second out to an external recorder. If the DVX200 records 120fps internally to a 60fps clip (yielding 2x slow motion), that's fine. You'll still end up with 120 captured frames for every second of real time you were recording, and the total length of the clip will be twice as long as the amount of real time you were actually recording. But since the camera is only capable of outputting 60 fps out of its HDMI or SDI port, it will have to drop half of the frames when outputting externally. So on the external recorder you would end up with 60 captured frames for every second of external recording (even if the in-camera recording has 120 frames for ever second).

This is a limitation of the camera, rather than a limitation of the external recorder. Many of the external recorders are capable of accepting and recording a 1080p120 signal, however, no cameras I know of will actually output this natively. So this ends up being a nice bullet point on the sell sheet for the external recorder that isn't all that useful in practice.
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Gotcha, thanks for the info!
 
So what happens when you're doing 120fps on the DVX200 with a PIX-Ex and hit record on both? How am I going to get an externally recorded overcrank? Does this mean a proper overcrank can only be recorded internally? What if the undercrank is only 60fps? Do I have to playback the overcranked video at project speed and record that? Then where's the benefit of external recording there?
 
JRJphoto said:
So what happens when you're doing 120fps on the DVX200 with a PIX-Ex and hit record on both?
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You'll get 120fps recorded internally, and 1080/60p recorded externally.

How am I going to get an externally recorded overcrank?
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You're not, unfortunately.

Does this mean a proper overcrank can only be recorded internally?
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Yes.

What if the undercrank is only 60fps?
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If 60fps or below, it can be recorded externally, but it will be embedded within a 60fps data stream. So, for example, if you were recording 1080/24p at 30fps, the internal recording would be 24fps at 25% slow motion. The external output will be 1080/60p (if you've set it to 60p) and it would consist of 30 unique frames per second, each one duplicated once. You'd have to strip out those duplicate frames in post, and then conform the footage to 24p, to match what the internal recording does automatically.

Do I have to playback the overcranked video at project speed and record that?
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That would be the easiest and best way, yes.

Then where's the benefit of external recording there?
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Well, the camera (not just the DVX200, but most any camera) doesn't output faster than 60fps. So... there isn't a benefit to trying to record overcranked/faster-than-60fps footage externally.
 
So, what you're saying is I am perfectly happy using my DVX200 without an external video recorder? Well, I am. lol And until I need 10 bit out I don't see the point in getting one. But, when I do, I will be getting a Pix-E5 or E5H (depending on if I want/need the 4444 XQ...and I might since I don't only use the DVX200).
 
Although of course you can record UHD to the DVX200 while very easily down converting to very crisp 1080p ON THE GO onto an external recorder, even to the very inexpensive ($495") BM 5" video assist, which now has much greater choice of codecs and tools. It also has quite a bright, sharp 5" monitor (sadly with a slight green tinge which one has to get rid of creating ones own specific lut). Works incredibly well although the Atomos Shogun flame, expensive though it might be has a phenomenally bright, really daylight viewable screen. I love it, except for the fan noise which is horrible.
Too many irritating fans in all these devices now! :Drogar-KnockedOut(D
 
Too many itritating fans? That's why I can't stand Star Wars anymore! :D

Is the green tint on the BMVA being recorded or is it just part of the display?
 
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