Recommendations for an audio setup/strategy for wedding videography please!

Field recorder.....take a feed directly from the sound board. If you have an H6N....see if you can use the aux sends from the board and multitrack each mic.

That illustrates one of the points I have been trying to get across. Sound board feed looks like an ideal solution. HOWEVER (its a big "however"!). You have to get access to that sound board in the first place. More often than not - in the UK at any rate - a church will not be unlocked until an hour or much less before the ceremony and you can't be sure that they will actually open it at the time agreed. Then once in there you find that the board was installed years ago by a technician and even if the staff know where the board is they are loathe to let anyone touch it for fear of losing settings that they don't understand. Even if they are amenable to letting you use their board often the board is fully enclosed in a thief-proof box. If I can attend a rehearsal and there is a usable board I take a phone photo of it and a note of the model so I can look up for myself what the hookups are. Lots of other issues as well such as what is mic'd up and what isn't in the church, how do you test it all properly beforehand and so on.

So its nice if you can get a feed and even nicer if it actually works but what many videographers do is position a small standalone audio recorder high on a lightstand close to one of the church's speakers as a backup to their frontline gear.

For civil ceremonies - in the UK at any rate - its almost unheard of for there to be a venue audio system in use during the ceremony. Thats because typically the DJ, who might otherwise provide the board etc, doesn't set up until after the wedding breakfast ready for the evening party. So for a civil ceremony you really are on your own.

David, if you shoot lots of wedding but never have parking issues, never have churches locked until a few minutes before the ceremony, never have brides who want you to capture the last moments of their getting ready before setting off for their venue whilst they are already running late, never miss important or desirable stuff because you're setting up, then all I can say is you must be living a charmed life. Wish I did. Here's a recent thread on another forum just on the subject of parking:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/531613-parking-woes-again.html

Pete
 
Ashton Lamont said:
Field recorder.....take a feed directly from the sound board. If you have an H6N....see if you can use the aux sends from the board and multitrack each mic.

That illustrates one of the points I have been trying to get across. Sound board feed looks like an ideal solution. HOWEVER (its a big "however"!). You have to get access to that sound board in the first place. More often than not - in the UK at any rate - a church will not be unlocked until an hour or much less before the ceremony and you can't be sure that they will actually open it at the time agreed. Then once in there you find that the board was installed years ago by a technician and even if the staff know where the board is they are loathe to let anyone touch it for fear of losing settings that they don't understand. Even if they are amenable to letting you use their board often the board is fully enclosed in a thief-proof box. If I can attend a rehearsal and there is a usable board I take a phone photo of it and a note of the model so I can look up for myself what the hookups are. Lots of other issues as well such as what is mic'd up and what isn't in the church, how do you test it all properly beforehand and so on.

So its nice if you can get a feed and even nicer if it actually works but what many videographers do is position a small standalone audio recorder high on a lightstand close to one of the church's speakers as a backup to their frontline gear.

For civil ceremonies - in the UK at any rate - its almost unheard of for there to be a venue audio system in use during the ceremony. Thats because typically the DJ, who might otherwise provide the board etc, doesn't set up until after the wedding breakfast ready for the evening party. So for a civil ceremony you really are on your own.

David, if you shoot lots of wedding but never have parking issues, never have churches locked until a few minutes before the ceremony, never have brides who want you to capture the last moments of their getting ready before setting off for their venue whilst they are already running late, never miss important or desirable stuff because you're setting up, then all I can say is you must be living a charmed life. Wish I did. Here's a recent thread on another forum just on the subject of parking:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/531613-parking-woes-again.html

Pete
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Fair enough. But IF you can get a feed from the sound mixer, then DO so. It should never be your ONLY source for sound.

Here in NC (USA), I've shot at a variety of venues. Some are pretty much dedicated wedding venues, and as such have their own separate sound systems for the outside and inside. Others are places like vineyards and wineries where they don't have their own sound systems, in which case you're going to have to work with whoever provides the sound system -- if one is provided at all.

Now I happen to be the guy at my church who handles the sound system for all functions in our sanctuary, so if anyone approaches me for a tap to the board, they get it pretty easily. I know of a few other churches in my area where that would also be the case. I don't know of any church whose sound system is locked in a closet and off-limits, though that could be the case in some. At our church, we also do video of the service, so managing the mixer is a very active process during a service.

Every venue is different, of course. Some are more challenging than others. I've never, EVER had churches locked until minutes before a ceremony. Quite the opposite, in fact. And we generally ALWAYS capture the bride -- and groom -- during their prep, whether it's at the wedding venue itself or at some other location. Nearly always it's at the venue, especially if it's a dedicated wedding venue.

I should point out that I ALWAYS scout the venue at least a week before the wedding, making sure to scout it at the time of day that the wedding is to take place. I pick possible camera positions and take photos and footage from those positions, to determine any light/shadow issues. I look for places to put microphones. I find electrical outlets. I seek out sound equipment. I ask the wedding planner about special things like musicians, soloists, or people reading poems. Where will the bride be? Which direction will she come down the aisle from? If it's an outdoor wedding, what's the 'Plan B' in case of bad weather? I check out all the rooms that the bridal party and groomsmen will use for prep. And I do a full scouting of the reception area. If it's indoors, I determine what lighting will be used during the reception. I have even done this at a venue that required a 90-minute drive (one-way) from my house. I plan, I make preparations in advance, and I have fall-back plans ready in case of any problems. All of this before the day of the event.

And since we arrive before the bridal party, and well before the guests, we usually have the best parking spots in the place. Of course, we don't offload from our parking spots -- we park as close to the site as possible, offload, and then go and park.

If my life is 'charmed' as a result of all that work, then so be it.
 
If aux sends are not avail....get some Radial Splitters and split the signal before it hits the board.

If there is a band....and they are multi tracking....offer $50 for them to track it and bring a hard drive to copy it after the show.

Your greatest asset is thinking ahead. Why not talk to the clients....get the sound engineers/band's email & phone. Call them and arrange it in advance. Takes about 10 min...you'll have your answer....show up prepared....and its way more professional than blindly going in not knowing the situation.

Wouldn't you rather show up on site having talked to the band/engineer and know their names in advance....and they are expecting you?

Work it out in advance....like any other production. Why wouldn't cha?! ;) You will feel better that you did.



That said...always....always....have plan B in your back pocket. The second word in your mind should be "redundancy."
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
Your greatest asset is thinking ahead. Why not talk to the clients....get the sound engineers/band's email & phone. Call them and arrange it in advance. Takes about 10 min...you'll have your answer....show up prepared....and its way more professional than blindly going in not knowing the situation.

Wouldn't you rather show up on site having talked to the band/engineer and know their names in advance....and they are expecting you?

Work it out in advance....like any other production. Why wouldn't cha?! ;) You will feel better that you did.

That said...always....always....have plan B in your back pocket. The second word in your mind should be "redundancy."
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Exactly!
 
A big thanks to you all for sharing your experiences and advice. When I've sufficiently planned for a wedding, I've had lots of time to prepare, although I've done mostly photography thus far, which I find doesn't need much time to set up compared to video.

I do shoot with a partner, so when we shoot video together, one of us can be dedicated as a b-cam/sound person. But, I'm always weary that things could go wrong and he might not be available (e.g. stuck in traffic, in the john), so I will begin with equipment that is ready to go and easy to use. I've settled on the following:

Tascam DR-70D - multiple inputs, dual level recording, built in mics, tripod-mountable, XLR.

Shure VP83 shotgun mic - I think this is a decent mic with a good build, but I wonder if I'd be better off with something like a Rode NTG2. Thoughts?

Small portable recorder....? I'm looking at the Tascam DR-05 or 22WL, but I'd like these to have a line-level input and I don't think they do. Any suggestions here? A Marantz or Sony? I know the mid-sized ones have line in, but they might be too big.

Rode wireless lav kit - to lav the groom/officiant.

These all take AA batteries of which I have plenty.

I have light stand with adapters for 1/4" and 3/8" to hold the small recorders and/or shotgun mic. I'm looking to buy a couple of table top tripods with a ball head and rubber on the feet.
 
The Shure VP83 has an unbalanced 3.5mm plug.. OK if all your devices use that config. It wouldn't be very good for boom pole use and long cable runs could be a problem. A internal battery powered mic with an XLR would give more options. Search here and other DV groups for mic preferences.
Of the small recorders with 3.5mm inputs that do support line level, it's usually -10dB, so interfacing with a pro level would usually require attenuation anyway. An attenuation/adapter cable could be made for a few $. Otherwise a DI box will convert line to mic level. The Rolls DB25 is a good cost effective choice IMO, and has multiple pad settings and a ground lift. The DB25b has variable rotary attenuator
 
Rick R said:
The Shure VP83 has an unbalanced 3.5mm plug.. OK if all your devices use that config. It wouldn't be very good for boom pole use and long cable runs could be a problem. A internal battery powered mic with an XLR would give more options. Search here and other DV groups for mic preferences.
Of the small recorders with 3.5mm inputs that do support line level, it's usually -10dB, so interfacing with a pro level would usually require attenuation anyway. An attenuation/adapter cable could be made for a few $. Otherwise a DI box will convert line to mic level. The Rolls DB25 is a good cost effective choice IMO, and has multiple pad settings and a ground lift. The DB25b has variable rotary attenuator
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Note you've got me thinking... If I need to take in a pro line level, a 3.5" can't handle that. So I should really have recorders with XLR inputs. Maybe a Tascam DR-40. And if all of my recorders have XLR, I can use a Rode NTG2 with them. My only concern is having to manage the mic, the cable and the shock mount cable separately. The Shure mic would've been just one thing to look after.

If I ever need to plug an XLR-based mic directly into one of my DSLRs, I suppose I can just use an XLR to 1/8" cable right?

I don't anticipate the need to boom a mic during a wedding or run a long cable, but at least I'll have the option.

OK, great! So to keep it simple, I'll lav the main players when possible, shotgun mic when not possible. Portable recorders for secondary sources or for taking a line in. Tascam DR-70D being fed by the mics and feeding the camera for reference track or backup. A couple of stands and mini tripods. Am I missing anything?
 
I'll quickly share my audio setup shooting with 1-2 C100's:

1) Prep: Internal camera mics for everything except reading a card. Then I'll throw on a shotgun mic to be quick.

2) Ceremony: 2x Countryman B3's and Tascam DR-10CS -- 1 on Groom, 1 on Officiant. If the Officiant balks, I tell them the bride and groom are paying a lot of money for quality video that requires quality sound. Since the Tascams are not wireless, it calms their fear of "messing with their system." Great thing about the Tascam DR-10CS is it records a -6db safety track. Lectern: TRAM TR-50 Lav taped to mic ran into an Olympus WS-822 recorder at middle gain (this usually pics up great ambience too). Finally I'll have 1 shotgun on the main c100 just as good scratch audio.

3) Photoshoot: Internal camera mics.

4) Reception: Variety of audio connectors that feed into a Tascam DR-60D. I then loop out via 3.5mm to Sennheiser G3's and feed that into Channel 2 of my C100 for reference. Channel 1 is Shotgun. For Toasts I specifically bring my own mic stand and rig the Tram TR-50 lav up the stand and 6" of slack. Pop in the DJ's wireless mic, throw on the black windscreen and everything is hidden. My lav then records really great audio fed into a Tascam DR-10CS at dual levels. Added bonus is the speaker has to stay close to the stand.

Here's a little example from my latest wedding (opening VO is the Countryman B3 and Tascam, toasts are Tram TR-50 lav since the DJ's feed was unusable):

 
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"If I ever need to plug an XLR-based mic directly into one of my DSLRs, I suppose I can just use an XLR to 1/8" cable right?"
Yes.. BUT.. XLR-based shotgun type mics must be powered, some have an internal battery option or would need an external Phantom Pwr. supply. BTW, most DSLRs audio is not very good, no matter what the front end.
 
DannayZay said:
2) Ceremony: 2x Countryman B3's and Tascam DR-10CS -- 1 on Groom, 1 on Officiant. If the Officiant balks, I tell them the bride and groom are paying a lot of money for quality video that requires quality sound. Since the Tascams are not wireless, it calms their fear of "messing with their system." Great thing about the Tascam DR-10CS is it records a -6db safety track. Lectern: TRAM TR-50 Lav taped to mic ran into an Olympus WS-822 recorder at middle gain (this usually pics up great ambience too). Finally I'll have 1 shotgun on the main c100 just as good scratch audio.
]
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Ditto on the DR-10CS-great little recorder and the safety track is a big plus. Planning to buy a Juiced Link Little Darling which has same small profile and features.
 
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