Recommendations for an audio setup/strategy for wedding videography please!

F

frugivore

Member
Hi guys! I need some help with developing a good strategy for recording audio at weddings and selecting gear. I shoot video with DSLRs and my main concerns are having backup audio, having gear that shares memory and battery formats, and simplifying the process in post production.

Here's what I think I need.

For prep, I'll put a tripod with camera and wide lens against a wall, with an omnidirectional mic feeding into a recorder/mixer to pick up general conversations. Also a shotgun mic feeding into another camera that's on a video monopod that I'll be monitoring.

For ceremony, a wireless lavaliere mic on both the groom and officiant, each feeding into a recorder/mixer on one of two cameras on tripods near the altar. An omnidirectional mic on each of those cameras picking up audience applause/chatter. And two portable recorders to catch other sources like live music or taking a line or from the church's sound system.

For reception speeches, a shotgun mic on each of two cameras on tripods feeding into recorder/mixer on each - one pointed at the speaker, the other at the couple or parents. Maybe a wireless lavaliere on the speakers as well? A portable recorder taking a line out from the DJ.

Any thoughts on how I should mic/record the day?

Any suggestions on mics and recorder to buy?
 
Frugivore

Welcome to DvxUser. This is such a broad question that you may not get too much response. Suggest you try more specific questions; take it in bite sized chunks.

For starters though, you mentioned some cam mounted mics. I know that in a wedding, it might be hard to avoid, but this is always a recipe for bad audio, so avoid it when possible. Whenever possible, you want any mic less than 24" from the speaker.

Grant
 
It's good to have that much equipment. Redundancy is your friend, especially for once-in-a-lifetime events.

I had a friend getting married. I recommended a wedding videographer to her, and also loaned her a Zoom H1 and wired lav mic, instructing her on how to put it on the groom. The wedding videographer told her, "Oh, you don't need that. I've got sound covered." Guess what? His recorder failed, so she had great video and crappy sound from on-board camcorder mics. Never, ever refuse any kind of redundant sound recording option. Never.

At weddings I have shot, I've had all cameras running on-board sound, mainly for synching purposes in post, but also as an absolute last-ditch redundancy. I put a wired lav and H1 on either the officient or the groom -- I'd do wireless if I could afford it. If there is a PA system, I also take a tap from that straight into a Zoom H4. I try to split it to two XLRs into the Zoom, so I can set the level on one track lower than the other, to cover any unexpected loud noises. And usually place another recorder close to the ceremony, on a boom. That covers me most of the time, although it's not perfect. And sometimes there is someone off to the side playing a guitar (without amplification), or singing a solo, or reciting a poem or verse. Have to find out about all that stuff ahead of time and plan for it.

Every wedding is different, so it can be hard to say, "This is what you need." Basically what you need to ensure you get good sound is -- everything you can get. You can't have too much.

I really don't find an omni mounted on a camera, no matter where the camera is located but especially if it's at the back of the room, useful at all. You need sound focused on people speaking and music. General room or location 'ambience' really isn't very useful, in my opinion. If the wedding is outdoors, or even indoors, you want the room/location noise as low as possible. All you really want to hear is people speaking and music. That means mics as close to people speaking as possible. A hyper mounted on a boom might be an adequate backup, but even it needs to be VERY close to the people speaking -- and it's not going to come CLOSE to the quality you'll get from a lav on the groom or officiant (or both). The farther away ANY shotgun mic gets from the people speaking, the worse your sound is going to be. More than a foot or two -- MAYBE three -- and it will be unacceptable.

I'm glad you're serious about getting great sound. Good luck!
 
For speeches I always tried to persuade the speakers to pass a wireless lav or handheld mic between them, - sometimes people are funny about clipping on/holding a mic, in which case I'd ask them to put the handheld/lav on the table directly in front of them prior top their speech.
 
ggrantly said:
Frugivore

Welcome to DvxUser. This is such a broad question that you may not get too much response. Suggest you try more specific questions; take it in bite sized chunks.

For starters though, you mentioned some cam mounted mics. I know that in a wedding, it might be hard to avoid, but this is always a recipe for bad audio, so avoid it when possible. Whenever possible, you want any mic less than 24" from the speaker.

Grant
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Grant. I understand your point about being specific. I'll take that into account in the future.

Having a mic on camera isn't any good if the source is too far, so I guess I'll only resort to that when I am, in fact, very close. For example, when the bride/groom is getting ready and I can be 2 feet away from them. Or when the bridal party is having drinks at the bar. Perhaps I can have a mic on just one camera for situations like these.
 
David W. Richardson said:
It's good to have that much equipment. Redundancy is your friend, especially for once-in-a-lifetime events.

I had a friend getting married. I recommended a wedding videographer to her, and also loaned her a Zoom H1 and wired lav mic, instructing her on how to put it on the groom. The wedding videographer told her, "Oh, you don't need that. I've got sound covered." Guess what? His recorder failed, so she had great video and crappy sound from on-board camcorder mics. Never, ever refuse any kind of redundant sound recording option. Never.

At weddings I have shot, I've had all cameras running on-board sound, mainly for synching purposes in post, but also as an absolute last-ditch redundancy. I put a wired lav and H1 on either the officient or the groom -- I'd do wireless if I could afford it. If there is a PA system, I also take a tap from that straight into a Zoom H4. I try to split it to two XLRs into the Zoom, so I can set the level on one track lower than the other, to cover any unexpected loud noises. And usually place another recorder close to the ceremony, on a boom. That covers me most of the time, although it's not perfect. And sometimes there is someone off to the side playing a guitar (without amplification), or singing a solo, or reciting a poem or verse. Have to find out about all that stuff ahead of time and plan for it.

Every wedding is different, so it can be hard to say, "This is what you need." Basically what you need to ensure you get good sound is -- everything you can get. You can't have too much.

I really don't find an omni mounted on a camera, no matter where the camera is located but especially if it's at the back of the room, useful at all. You need sound focused on people speaking and music. General room or location 'ambience' really isn't very useful, in my opinion. If the wedding is outdoors, or even indoors, you want the room/location noise as low as possible. All you really want to hear is people speaking and music. That means mics as close to people speaking as possible. A hyper mounted on a boom might be an adequate backup, but even it needs to be VERY close to the people speaking -- and it's not going to come CLOSE to the quality you'll get from a lav on the groom or officiant (or both). The farther away ANY shotgun mic gets from the people speaking, the worse your sound is going to be. More than a foot or two -- MAYBE three -- and it will be unacceptable.

I'm glad you're serious about getting great sound. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks David! I've had good luck so far but I'd like to make my own luck from now on. ;-)

You raise some great points. I've been doing mostly photograph at weddings thus far and having enough tools for every situation, and having backup of these tools, has served me very well. Did my 24-70mm stop working? No problem, I'll pull out the 24mm or the 50mm. Did i drop my flash and break it? I've got three more. I'll deal with the bad equipment after the wedding.

And yes - every wedding had been different. Good light, bad light. Calm crowd, rowdy ruffians. Very large spaces, very tight spots. I understand how to handle these situations when doing photography, but only because I've lived through them and, at times, failed. But always learned from my failures. I'm sure this will happen when I try to capture audio.

I suppose at weddings, there really isn't any ambient sound to capture. Applause? A whispering crowd? Chirping birds outdoors. I could probably add these on post from other sources instead.

But I will be prepared with lots of backup mics and recorders. They don't take up nearly as much space in a bag as do cameras, lenses, flashes, light stand, tripods, etc.

Since most of the audio is speech, I think I'll need to focus on lav mics. Once I decide on that, then I can look at those portable recorders with built in mics. Two of each should be a good start. Maybe I can do without shotgun mics altogether.

Anyhow, thanks for the advice!
 
I think you need to do two things.

1) Create a strategy for sound design.
For example if you 'strategy' is to have pretty pictures and music you dont need any mics!
If your strategy includes close up 'vox pops' and on camera mic can be great (if you shoot the shots with a wide)
Once you have your sound design model built you can focus on kit.


2) Understand that everything goes wrong.

So you have planned to mic the groom, well the batt dies or he takes off his jacket mid speech or.. or.. or well that mic the groom could go wrong.. you might even be monitoring that and not be able to do anything about it.
So you need a back up.. say a zoom on the speeches table as well as the pass around mic or clip ons

---

To reliably cover all of this is a big ask unless you have a simple strategy nailed, and your whole crew understand it.

A soundie might be good.
A bcam op who can swing a boom might be good.
Cameras with XLRs are good, not DSLR,
Various other recorders too ideally expensive reliable ones with big batteries.

S
 
There's a lot to keep on top of at weddings because you can't be sure what is going to happen and when and where no matter how much planning and pre-wedding consulting you do with clients. Things go off-script, participants decline to use your perfect (wireless lav) equipment, speakers wave around hand-held mics resulting in wild variations on levels, sound boards don't output what they appeared to output when you set up, etc etc etc.

So you need a simply strategy that you can fall back on or even use as your go-to methodology.

On the plus side, weddings are made easier in that clients expectations of audio and video technical quality are not sky high. Quality is a rod you are very welcome to thrash your own back with but clients don't care - its all about capturing the emotion with them.

Starting with the prep part of the day. Two video cams in the same room will be intrusive - remember there will also be a photographer or two in the room - plus it will be hard to get unblocked footage on the locked down cam with all the folks crashing around. There won't be much usable ambient as there will be radios / TVs playing including adverts, kids shouting and bawling, private unflattering conversations etc. Often best to have a music track instead. But on your cam have a shotgun so at least if there are some nice exchanges you have it as directional as possible. Consider putting a Gopro on the dSLR so you have two views.

For the ceremony you won't always have time to set up as you would wish. A good strategy is to have several Zoom H1's or suchlike that you can hide in flower arrangements, clamp to lecterns, hide near altars and so on. These can work well on auto-levels if the sound is fairly constant but if there are periods of silence then the auto kicks in and the result is not very nice. Or set them on 90% levels on WAV 16bit except for close to a chior or organ and suchlike in which case lower.

A lav to an H1 in a grooms pocket is quite a chunky setup so consider something smaller. You don't need expensive lavs - that will just get you a noticeable mismatch between the quality of parts where you've been able to use your best kit and parts where e.g. you have to use a clamped H1 on a lectern for a reading for which the person stood several feet away from where they were "supposed" to be.

Celebrants may object to you using a 2nd lav on them when they are already using the venue lav - but you cannot rely on the venue sound board.

Wireless is nice to have but expensive and not totally reliable. I have three sets of Sennheiser G3's but seldom use them, instead relying on 4 x H1's an H4 and a small Olympus. I put one on the groom if its a venue in which I can't get an H1 hidden anywhere near (many churches), but be prepared to be declined. Likewise with the priest. Fortunately often the groom the bride and the priest are sufficiently close together for the grooms kit to capture all three well.

For the speeches you have even more people who may object to being lav'd up. H1's on mini tripods on the top table work very well and make an excellent job of including the speaker plus the ambient. You really need one for each participant and warn them beforehand that the H1 is just a recorder not a mic - otherwise they will pick it up! Again get a feed from the DJ's board but don't rely on it.

You can't monitor a standalone audio recorder - obviously - but neither can you do much about faulty wireless mid-wedding either. You do have some redundancy with standalone e.g. an H1 recording the grooms speech is probably going to be close enough to make a good job of the father of the brides speeches as well.

Always have your shotgun on your main cam. You'll seldom use it other than for syncing as its almost always too far away but it is an insurance policy just in case you need it.

Syncing in post is an absolute doddle with Pluraleyes. I regularly use 4 or 5 cams plus 4 or more audio recorders and PE just gets on with it.

Pete
 
Ashton Lamont said:
There's a lot to keep on top of at weddings because you can't be sure what is going to happen and when and where no matter how much planning and pre-wedding consulting you do with clients. Things go off-script, participants decline to use your perfect (wireless lav) equipment, speakers wave around hand-held mics resulting in wild variations on levels, sound boards don't output what they appeared to output when you set up, etc etc etc.

So you need a simply strategy that you can fall back on or even use as your go-to methodology.

On the plus side, weddings are made easier in that clients expectations of audio and video technical quality are not sky high. Quality is a rod you are very welcome to thrash your own back with but clients don't care - its all about capturing the emotion with them.

Starting with the prep part of the day. Two video cams in the same room will be intrusive - remember there will also be a photographer or two in the room - plus it will be hard to get unblocked footage on the locked down cam with all the folks crashing around. There won't be much usable ambient as there will be radios / TVs playing including adverts, kids shouting and bawling, private unflattering conversations etc. Often best to have a music track instead. But on your cam have a shotgun so at least if there are some nice exchanges you have it as directional as possible. Consider putting a Gopro on the dSLR so you have two views.

For the ceremony you won't always have time to set up as you would wish. A good strategy is to have several Zoom H1's or suchlike that you can hide in flower arrangements, clamp to lecterns, hide near altars and so on. These can work well on auto-levels if the sound is fairly constant but if there are periods of silence then the auto kicks in and the result is not very nice. Or set them on 90% levels on WAV 16bit except for close to a chior or organ and suchlike in which case lower.

A lav to an H1 in a grooms pocket is quite a chunky setup so consider something smaller. You don't need expensive lavs - that will just get you a noticeable mismatch between the quality of parts where you've been able to use your best kit and parts where e.g. you have to use a clamped H1 on a lectern for a reading for which the person stood several feet away from where they were "supposed" to be.

Celebrants may object to you using a 2nd lav on them when they are already using the venue lav - but you cannot rely on the venue sound board.

Wireless is nice to have but expensive and not totally reliable. I have three sets of Sennheiser G3's but seldom use them, instead relying on 4 x H1's an H4 and a small Olympus. I put one on the groom if its a venue in which I can't get an H1 hidden anywhere near (many churches), but be prepared to be declined. Likewise with the priest. Fortunately often the groom the bride and the priest are sufficiently close together for the grooms kit to capture all three well.

For the speeches you have even more people who may object to being lav'd up. H1's on mini tripods on the top table work very well and make an excellent job of including the speaker plus the ambient. You really need one for each participant and warn them beforehand that the H1 is just a recorder not a mic - otherwise they will pick it up! Again get a feed from the DJ's board but don't rely on it.

You can't monitor a standalone audio recorder - obviously - but neither can you do much about faulty wireless mid-wedding either. You do have some redundancy with standalone e.g. an H1 recording the grooms speech is probably going to be close enough to make a good job of the father of the brides speeches as well.

Always have your shotgun on your main cam. You'll seldom use it other than for syncing as its almost always too far away but it is an insurance policy just in case you need it.

Syncing in post is an absolute doddle with Pluraleyes. I regularly use 4 or 5 cams plus 4 or more audio recorders and PE just gets on with it.

Pete
Click to expand...

I would add that if you're clamping H1's to lecterns or putting them on table tripods, then it's best to fit them with shock mounts to cut down on noise transmitted through the table or lectern.

And with your shotgun on your cam, try to have it only running to one audio channel -- left or right -- if you can have the built-in camera mic running to the other channel. Depending on the shotgun, you may actually get more usable audio from the on-board mic. Either way, it just gives you one more level of redundancy.
 
Ashton Lamont said:
There's a lot to keep on top of at weddings because you can't be sure what is going to happen and when and where no matter how much planning and pre-wedding consulting you do with clients. Things go off-script, participants decline to use your perfect (wireless lav) equipment, speakers wave around hand-held mics resulting in wild variations on levels, sound boards don't output what they appeared to output when you set up, etc etc etc.

So you need a simply strategy that you can fall back on or even use as your go-to methodology.

On the plus side, weddings are made easier in that clients expectations of audio and video technical quality are not sky high. Quality is a rod you are very welcome to thrash your own back with but clients don't care - its all about capturing the emotion with them.

Starting with the prep part of the day. Two video cams in the same room will be intrusive - remember there will also be a photographer or two in the room - plus it will be hard to get unblocked footage on the locked down cam with all the folks crashing around. There won't be much usable ambient as there will be radios / TVs playing including adverts, kids shouting and bawling, private unflattering conversations etc. Often best to have a music track instead. But on your cam have a shotgun so at least if there are some nice exchanges you have it as directional as possible. Consider putting a Gopro on the dSLR so you have two views.

For the ceremony you won't always have time to set up as you would wish. A good strategy is to have several Zoom H1's or suchlike that you can hide in flower arrangements, clamp to lecterns, hide near altars and so on. These can work well on auto-levels if the sound is fairly constant but if there are periods of silence then the auto kicks in and the result is not very nice. Or set them on 90% levels on WAV 16bit except for close to a chior or organ and suchlike in which case lower.

A lav to an H1 in a grooms pocket is quite a chunky setup so consider something smaller. You don't need expensive lavs - that will just get you a noticeable mismatch between the quality of parts where you've been able to use your best kit and parts where e.g. you have to use a clamped H1 on a lectern for a reading for which the person stood several feet away from where they were "supposed" to be.

Celebrants may object to you using a 2nd lav on them when they are already using the venue lav - but you cannot rely on the venue sound board.

Wireless is nice to have but expensive and not totally reliable. I have three sets of Sennheiser G3's but seldom use them, instead relying on 4 x H1's an H4 and a small Olympus. I put one on the groom if its a venue in which I can't get an H1 hidden anywhere near (many churches), but be prepared to be declined. Likewise with the priest. Fortunately often the groom the bride and the priest are sufficiently close together for the grooms kit to capture all three well.

For the speeches you have even more people who may object to being lav'd up. H1's on mini tripods on the top table work very well and make an excellent job of including the speaker plus the ambient. You really need one for each participant and warn them beforehand that the H1 is just a recorder not a mic - otherwise they will pick it up! Again get a feed from the DJ's board but don't rely on it.

You can't monitor a standalone audio recorder - obviously - but neither can you do much about faulty wireless mid-wedding either. You do have some redundancy with standalone e.g. an H1 recording the grooms speech is probably going to be close enough to make a good job of the father of the brides speeches as well.

Always have your shotgun on your main cam. You'll seldom use it other than for syncing as its almost always too far away but it is an insurance policy just in case you need it.

Syncing in post is an absolute doddle with Pluraleyes. I regularly use 4 or 5 cams plus 4 or more audio recorders and PE just gets on with it.

Pete
Click to expand...

I like the idea of H1's on mini mic stands. If you can get the stands close enough to the people speaking, it might even work to strap the H1 to the stand itself and run a wired lav from it up to the mic holder. Still small enough to be unobtrusive, but the lav might do a better job of rejecting other noise.
 
morgan_moore said:
I think you need to do two things.

1) Create a strategy for sound design.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice Morgan. I've been thinking about just that - strategy. I want to keep it simple until I'm comfortable with getting good sound. Instead of thinking about the wedding day in chronological parts, I should figure out how I'd record different scenarios, so that if i encounter something unscripted, I'll know what to do. With that in mind, I'd like to capture all important speech (ceremony, DJ/MC and speeches/toasts) and music (procession, live music, reception entrance music and first dance). .

morgan_moore said:
2) Understand that everything goes wrong.

S
Click to expand...

Yup, backups for everything!
 
To some extent the strategy comes from planning your edit. Then you know the sound you must have to cover the pictures you are going to get.

the sequence up to the arrival
- I met Milly when I was walking my dog (shotgun interview during tool up)
- I saw Jon every day out in the park (shotgun interview)
-He proposed to me in Malaga (shotgun interview)
-bells (ambient)
The ceremony
-openin music (bought or recorded)
-do you take the bla to by my bla (double everything)
Confetti
Parents interview 'giving her away is the proudest'
Speeches
(obviously)
Disco
Best man "John and I used to slam 10 tequilla at university now he is an accountant" (BM interview)
Drive off

Whatever!

The thing is if you dont have to run the picture and sound together.. get the vox at quiet moments.
Dont ask the best man question during the disco, when he is hammered and there is music on.. ask it after lunch
So then shotgun on cam works for everything apart from the two bits of actuality (ceremony speeches)

S
 
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clamping H1's to lecterns or putting them on table tripods, then it's best to fit them with shock mounts to cut down on noise transmitted through the table or lectern. And with your shotgun on your cam, try to have it only running to one audio channel -- left or right -- if you can have the built-in camera mic running to the other channel. Depending on the shotgun, you may actually get more usable audio from the on-board mic. Either way, it just gives you one more level of redundancy

At weddings you're quite unlucky if noise is transmitted via a table as more often than not the tables stand on carpeted floors and the tables themselves have covers over the surface. Its only if people start drumming their fingers on the table near the mic that problems arise. I use these little tripods in their unextended mode from UK retailer Jessops:

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/products/jessops/digi-pod-extendable-tripod-585/show.html

With lecterns you just need to be careful that you don't position the mic close to where someone might reposition a book or shuffle papers whilst they're doing their thing.

might even work to strap the H1 to the stand itself and run a wired lav from it up to the mic holder. Still small enough to be unobtrusive, but the lav might do a better job of rejecting other noise.

Yes I routinely do that with lecterns because a clamp with a recorder attached to the lectern is unsightly - I'm a photgrapher as well and I don't want that in the foreground of a head and shoulders shot. There are loads of cheap chinese friction clamps on ebay. I secure the lav cables with small strips of gaffer tape or black tack - which is a stronger version of blutack. But the pickup pattern of a lav will typically be much wider than that on an H1 so the H1 wins in terms of majoring on the sound that you want. The lav is better though obviously if you can't be sure where the person is going to be. Often you can hide your lav nicely on the church's gooseneck.

I also routinely have a shotgun into one channel and onboard or wireless into the other in my main cam. Can be a lifesaver when you can't be sure of varying levels.

All these things can swallow up valuable setup and breakdown time though and you really need to get fluent with all the basics before refining.

Pete
 
Tables at receptions are there for a reason. Most of them have people sitting at them eating, drinking and talking. They bump the table quite a bit in the process. No amount of carpet under the table is going to prevent those vibrations from transmitting to the H1 sitting in a mic stand on top of the table.

Even tables that don't have people sitting at them often have folks leaning on them or bumping into them.

And lecterns get leaned on, bumped, Bibles and other books put on them, etc. So clamping a mic or H1 onto the lectern is a bad idea without shock protection.

As for the pickup pattern of a lav vs. H1 -- that's true of an omni lav, but not necessarily if a cardioid lav is used. The mics in the H1 are cardioid, but since there are two of them arranged in an X/Y configuration, with neither pointed directly at the person speaking, they are more likely to pick up more off-axis sound than a single cardioid pointed straight at the person speaking. The challenge is to find a way to ensure that a cardioid lav will, indeed, be pointed directly at the mouth of the speaking person, since people come in all shapes and sizes.

You only get one shot at this. Do everything you can to ensure you get the best sound possible. That includes shock mounts for any mic or H1 being used as a mic. It's simple and inexpensive, so why risk ending up with problem audio?
 
David, I'm a veteran of hundreds of weddings - I shoot them week in week out - and I'd have to disagree with you based on my personal experience. The tables at receptions do indeed have people sitting at them but usually its only from the top table that the speeches are made, comprising the father of the bride, the groom, the best man, and occasionally the bride. If there isn't a father of the bride then someone else such as a brother may fill the gap and they would speak from the top table regardless of where they might be sitting in the room for their meal. And almost invariably once the speeches start everyone stops eating - if they indeed have food at that point which would be very unusual - and just lol back in their chairs. No-one absolutely no-one walks around crashing into furniture and jogging your mics in the process and they do not talk to each other. There are occasional exceptions e.g. a budget one I shot in a village hall with trestle tables and wooden floor and guests at the top table stamping their feet on said floor; or a joint Swedish / Russian one where there were 13 speeches from various locations (often also a feature if there is a west indian connection) but even then no-one moves around at all except to remove screaming kids.

So in practice you seldom ever need to build in extra precautions.

Again, if lecterns are going to get bumped its at the very start of that particular speakers presentation, down to nerves where they feel the need to rearrange paperwork or grip the top of the lectern. Moments after that it settles down again and they either don't touch the lectern at all or they grip the top vice-like, in either case not causing you mic problems.

Generally a directional (cardioid) lav is a very poor choice for weddings in my experience. Have one in your kit by all means but the very last thing you want to happen is for the volume to be all over the place caused by the wearer moving their head from side to side. Forget all about telling them how to interact with a directional lav because they will forget for sure, just as they will forget how to use a handheld mic properly during the speeches. An omni lav is a good choice as well for when you need to pick up the groom the bride and the priest all in one. An H1 in a bunch of flowers adjacent to or hidden in flowers on a table and aimed at the bride groom and celebrant can do a terrific job and at the same time not pick up too much distracting sound from the guests. However in churches often you can't get a hidden H1 close enough so its back to trying to get a lav on the groom.

To the OP: remember through all this brides and grooms are not expecting pristine audio unless you've set yourself up with examples to heighten their expectations. They want it be able to hear it clearly and understand it. Thats all. And many will be comparing your "good enough" audio to the terrible audio they've heard from friends weddings where the video coverage comprised one well-meaning hobbyist friend or relation grimly handholding a camcorder throughout. There are parallels with the whole "do I need to shoot 4k" debate. This is where mainstream wedding work that pays you a living income is hugely different to just about any other audio discipline. By all means have your own standards and targets to satisfy yourself but don't imagine for one moment that mainstream paying wedding clients share your priorities.

Pete
 
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Ashton Lamont said:
David, I'm a veteran of hundreds of weddings - I shoot them week in week out - and I'd have to disagree with you based on my personal experience. The tables at receptions do indeed have people sitting at them but usually its only from the top table that the speeches are made, comprising the father of the bride, the groom, the best man, and occasionally the bride. If there isn't a father of the bride then someone else such as a brother may fill the gap and they would speak from the top table regardless of where they might be sitting in the room for their meal. And almost invariably once the speeches start everyone stops eating - if they indeed have food at that point which would be very unusual - and just lol back in their chairs. No-one absolutely no-one walks around crashing into furniture and jogging your mics in the process and they do not talk to each other. There are occasional exceptions e.g. a budget one I shot in a village hall with trestle tables and wooden floor and guests at the top table stamping their feet on said floor; or a joint Swedish / Russian one where there were 13 speeches from various locations (often also a feature if there is a west indian connection) but even then no-one moves around at all except to remove screaming kids.

So in practice you seldom ever need to build in extra precautions.

Again, if lecterns are going to get bumped its at the very start of that particular speakers presentation, down to nerves where they feel the need to rearrange paperwork or grip the top of the lectern. Moments after that it settles down again and they either don't touch the lectern at all or they grip the top vice-like, in either case not causing you mic problems.

Generally a directional (cardioid) lav is a very poor choice for weddings in my experience. Have one in your kit by all means but the very last thing you want to happen is for the volume to be all over the place caused by the wearer moving their head from side to side. Forget all about telling them how to interact with a directional lav because they will forget for sure, just as they will forget how to use a handheld mic properly during the speeches. An omni lav is a good choice as well for when you need to pick up the groom the bride and the priest all in one. An H1 in a bunch of flowers adjacent to or hidden in flowers on a table and aimed at the bride groom and celebrant can do a terrific job and at the same time not pick up too much distracting sound from the guests. However in churches often you can't get a hidden H1 close enough so its back to trying to get a lav on the groom.

To the OP: remember through all this brides and grooms are not expecting pristine audio unless you've set yourself up with examples to heighten their expectations. They want it be able to hear it clearly and understand it. Thats all. And many will be comparing your "good enough" audio to the terrible audio they've heard from friends weddings where the video coverage comprised one well-meaning hobbyist friend or relation grimly handholding a camcorder throughout. There are parallels with the whole "do I need to shoot 4k" debate. This is where mainstream wedding work that pays you a living income is hugely different to just about any other audio discipline. By all means have your own standards and targets to satisfy yourself but don't imagine for one moment that mainstream paying wedding clients share your priorities.

Pete
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I'm glad it works for you. But the possibility still exists that movement at the table could mar the sound at some critical point. Why is it a bad thing to use a shock mount?

Every wedding is different.

I wasn't referring to the lav cardioid being worn -- I was referring to it being mounted on a small mic stand, wired to an H1 attached to that stand.

My goal is always to get the mic as close to the mouth of the person speaking as possible, balanced against being as unobtrusive as possible. Brides and grooms may not expect pristine sound, but it's certainly a goal to strive for, so long as you balance it against not being intrusive in their special day. After all, they're there to get married -- not to make a video.
 
Why is it a bad thing to use a shock mount?

Just for completeness: Its not necessarily bad as such, and clearly counter-intuitive to avoid them.

But the use of "extras" in the wedding scenario can disadvantage you in other ways. Leaving aside the unsightliness of having kit in shot - especially when stills are also being shot for expensive albums - the more kit you have and the more involved that kit is then the more time you need to set up and break down plus the more demand you place upon yourself as regards carrying the kit.

I appreciate that this will seem absurd to non-volume wedding shooters but non-the-less these are big issue which you find out the hard way. In a church typically you will need at least 3 H1's: 1 near the high altar to capture the final blessings, 1 around the lectern to capture readings, and of course 1 close to or on the groom. And ideally an extra one close to a church speaker as a backup or attached to a sound board if thats feasible. So already you have to carry these in addition to a range of clamps mini tripods lightstands gaffer tape and tack, not to mention your actual video kit - which typically will be multi-cam these days as you won't get away with single or dual cam. As soon as your kit occupies two bags rather than one bag you're starting to introduce issues. Forget about routinely being able to park nearby as often that is not possible. Forget about promised reserved parking spaces as some relation will zoom into them. Forget about using wheeled carts as you'll come across stairs etc you can't easily negotiate. And forget about the internal layout being the same on the day as it was when you last worked there or when you did your recce - furniture - especially lecterns, chairs, and large candle stands get moved around and huge flower arrangements block access to your planned positions and views.

All this with very limited time to set up and breakdown, during which you cannot shoot some important or photogenic moments.

Get an assistant? Good luck finding a reliable one. And you need to build in the true cost of an assistant plus find clients who are willing to pay that true cost unless you copout and use a "free" wife or husband.

So often the answers I see from non-wedding video and sound guys in answer to the OP's common question are from an idealised point of view and just don't stack up in the real world in which you have to prioritise.

There, I've said enough :- )

Pete
 
Field recorder.....take a feed directly from the sound board. If you have an H6N....see if you can use the aux sends from the board and multitrack each mic.

For redundancy....throw a las on the pastor and broom. Not bride.
 
Ashton Lamont said:
So often the answers I see from non-wedding video and sound guys in answer to the OP's common question are from an idealised point of view and just don't stack up in the real world in which you have to prioritise.

There, I've said enough :- )

Pete
Click to expand...

I shoot weddings. Bliss Video Productions is a wedding and event video company.
 
Ashton Lamont said:
So often the answers I see from non-wedding video and sound guys in answer to the OP's common question are from an idealised point of view and just don't stack up in the real world in which you have to prioritise.

There, I've said enough :- )

Pete
Click to expand...

I will add that I and my assistant (who is 2nd camera so she has her own setup and work to do) show up at the venue well in advance of the start of the shoot. We've never had too little time to unload, setup and prep our gear. By the time the bridal party arrives to begin their prep, we're ready to shoot.

There is lots of time between bride/groom prep and the ceremony. We've never had any problems feeling rushed to get set to shoot the ceremony. After the ceremony, there's plenty of time before the reception -- as they shoot wedding party still photos for quite a while. My 2nd shooter covers that, and I get prepped in the reception hall. We shoot the entrance of the wedding party to the reception hall. Then everyone pretty much sits and eats and talks for awhile, so we get coverage of that -- again, never felt rushed.

The real reception business starts after that -- speeches, toasts, dances, cake cutting, etc. After that, it's just a party. All of which we cover just fine. Again, I've never felt rushed. In fact, at times it gets a bit boring waiting for the next thing to happen.

That's just my experience. But I don't really see any problem with sticking a shock mount on a mic or recorder.
 
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