Recomended Scene settings for Theater?

H

handymus

Active member
I have a shoot coming up on this Friday and Saturday for the Ballet production of "Nutcracker".

If anyone has shot theater productions can you recommend settings I should use?

The footage will be down converted to standard def for DVD production.

I was thinking 1080p 30, but just shot another theater production with 720p 30, and it worked fine, but not sure which is better. I will be doing test footage tomorrow evening.

I have Barry's book and he does have a theater scene file in there, should I use that one???

I really don't want to have to "tweak" the footage in PP.

Any help is very much appreciated!!

-Terry
 
I'd defer to Barry Werger on this, as he's a professional videographer for theater/live performances and uses an HMC150 all the time. His username is "ullanta"; hopefully he'll see this, if not, send him a PM.
 
Usually they are 3200K. Sometimes the follow spots (if they are using them) are not or have some God aweful gel on them. Definitely talk to the lighting guys and preferably one that knows what the lights color rating are. Sometimes I get a blank look and they point to another guy. lol.

It can be difficult to just "white balance" in a theature sitsuation as the usually have colored gels ove rthe lights so you have no neutral lighting to balance off of. In my experience you need to use a preset. (same for most concerts).

I just covered a play in a venue I have worked in before, and even to the eyes you could see the follow spot was very cold. I'll have to do some work in post. Probably warm everything up a tad so the skin tones hit by the spot don't look so morbid. Bit of a PITA since I also do not what the actors not hit bby the follow spot to look orange.
 
Thanks Denwa...and I know EXACTLY what you mean. I just shot a show, and used the Auto WB, and it actually worked extremely well! I don't know the lighting for this show yet, but will be attending the rehearsal tomorrow evening, so can do some testing to see what works best.
 
I wouldn't use Auto WB.

I would just find out the native color of the bare lights and use the preset that covers that.

It's probably 3200K, though they could be using 5600K lights. If you have nice lighting guys and they and you have time you could ask them if they have any bare lights the could trun on (and evrything else including hall lights turned off) and white balance off that. In my experience that almost never happens. :)
 
Often there's a mix of lights involved (spots are almost always closer to 5.6k than 3.2k, even if other lights are 3.2k-ish).

In a good show, the lighting designer works hard to achieve a desired look, and your goal is NOT to neutralize his/her work by rebalancing in the camera. Auto WB will fight the lighting designer's choices. Choose a preset, or do a custom WB, and stick with it.

Often balancing on something between 3.2 and 5.6k will get a good result... but I usually use a preset, and in most situations I find that theatrically, 5.6k tends to work a little better. Not for EVERY show... but that's usually my first guess. Also, seems 5.6k comes out nicer after adjustments in post.

As for recording mode, I almost always use HA mode, with a 1/30th shutter speed which results in progressive footage. (This is for historic reasons, some glitchiness at 4GB boundaries I'm not convinced is yet fixed in FCP, and storage space). It works very well for me... (and helps with low-light) ,but if you go PH, I'd choose 1080/30p if your final product will be HD, or if you plan to do much reframing for SD. A theatrical setting is not likely to tax the codec to the point where 720's lower compression ratio will make a difference. Oh, just looked and you said SD... well, I don't think the choice will be of great consequence especially if you're not planning on much reframing in post... so if your workflow is easier (faster?) in 720p, that's likely a more important factor.

The main thing you can do to make your image better and your post easier is to be on top of the manual iris. If you go to rehearsals, you can write yourself a "cheat sheet" of iris settings for different scenes/events (just remember that lighting design is sometimes in flux during the rehearsals).

I'd say, also, don't use a Cine-like gamma; blown highlights (which you're almost guaranteed to have in some parts of some shots if you expose optimally) don't look good in cinelike! I've been using mostly high gamma to preserve as much shadow detail as possible... though of course for some shows something else is called for...

DRS helps a lot... but you can't use it in 30p, sadly! I'll soon be experimenting with a workflow of shooting 60p and converting to 30p to see if it's worth it to get DRS... but I have no results yet!

Good luck, and keep us in the loop!

-Barry
 
ullanta said:
I'd say, also, don't use a Cine-like gamma; blown highlights (which you're almost guaranteed to have in some parts of some shots if you expose optimally) don't look good in cinelike! I've been using mostly high gamma to preserve as much shadow detail as possible... though of course for some shows something else is called for...

DRS helps a lot... but you can't use it in 30p, sadly! I'll soon be experimenting with a workflow of shooting 60p and converting to 30p to see if it's worth it to get DRS... but I have no results yet!

Good luck, and keep us in the loop!

-Barry
Click to expand...

I wish cine-d let you change the knee. It would be nice to set a low or mid knee for these kinds of shows.

I do shoot with Cine-D for concerts (which often are similar lighting wise). I tend not to use DRS, originally due to shooting 30P but if I did it would probably be DRS 1, 2 maybe if it was real low light. DRS dioes help prevent blown areas so that is nice. It can add noise to some black areas though.

I find using 30 or 24P gives me almost as much exposure in the black area as 60P with DRS 1 anyway. Just wish I had some blow out prevention. :)

I may have to play around with the gamma settings. Cine D and V are the only ones that do not let you set a knee right?
 
Awesome tips Barry! I have been shooting theater for the past several years, all with consumer video cameras, and have always struggled with the lighting. (mostly lack of, and bright spots....what a pain!) My last camera was the Canon HFS100, but that too is lacking on the low light end.

Can you give me some settings (specifically) for a good scene setting I can use? I am very new to my camera and haven't had the time to experiment under theater lights.

As far as lighting for this particular show, last year it was very simple - well lit scenes and some darker ones. I don't even know if they are using follow spots. (I doubt it...they don't spend money for a lighting designer...not like my regular theater shoots)

I really like your tip for the WB. That makes total sense to me, I didn't think about it that way before. On my Canon I would use tungsten (preset) and just leave it, which worked beautifully.

I will be using a Manfrotto 501 with a Varizoom VZRockPZFI controller. I have not used the Varizoom yet, but can't wait to use it. It will be a huge help.

Any other tips you can give me specific to the HMC150 would really be appreciated. I will probably go with 1080/30p, unless there is a specific reason to use 720/30p.

Thanks!

Terry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top