RealStream Andromeda

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Barry_S

Moderator
After about a year of development work, it looks like Juan Pertierra's  uncompressed capture system for the DVX100 will have its product release.  The RealStream Andromeda system will capture 4:4:4 12-bit uncompressed output straight from the DVX100 A/D converters.  There are two major benefits to this system--1) it captures *all* the raw image data coming out of the DVX100 and 2) it allows for significant image manipulation in post-production with minimal quality loss.  

The Andromeda system captures uncompressed TIFF files of each frame at 16-bit RGB precision(48-bits/pixel).  The DVX100 raw output is 12-bit RGB data for each (R,G,B) channel, so the file "wrapper" has some extra empty bits that may be helpful for internal calculations performed in the editing/post process (as long as your post production software can handle 16 bit/channel TIFF files).  In reality, you have a 36 bit (12x3) file to play with. The raw output files will have significantly more dynamic range (~2 stops) and color information.

The DVX normally outputs 8 bit data per channel at a 5:1 (DV) compression rate.  The 4:1:1 (or PAL 4:2:0) sampling rate significantly limits the quality of the final DV material, so the Andromeda is a significant step forward.  

The Andromeda system requires internal modification (3-5 days at ReelStream) of the DVX and thus voids your warranty.  The ouput is via a USB 2.0 connection and although I don't know what the final data rate is, a normal fast hard drive should have the ability to keep up with the capture rate.  The camera simultaneously records to tape and outputs the raw stream.  No word on price yet.

ReelStream
http://www.reel-stream.com/

DVInfo Net thread
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20332
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

I've monitored Juan's progress over the past several months. I'm wondering if outputting through USB is better than Firewire. Having 4:4:4 uncompressed video is a great thing especially if you are transferring to film. I hope he keeps the price reasonable. In any case, its a remarkable breakthrough for the digital community.
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

It would be a perfect solution for chromakey! You have 100% of the color information :)
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

Yeah, but you're skipping all of the cinegamma and other features which contribute mightily to the look of the DVX.
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

Sounds like the raw data is going to need post work. Maybe the unique DVX look could be reintroduced with the proper software.
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

oh yes the RAW data will definitely need work. That is, however, the nature of RAW footage and part of its inherent usefulness. Great for manipulation!

I'm sure the DVX look could be introduced in post. With a RAW file you can do whatever you want with the gamma and do it with high bit processing instead of in camera. RAW is straight information off the chip. Instead of adding a gamma manipulation in camera before compression you can do it afterwords in post as the data has not changed since it came off the CCDs.
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

"We will give you the key." Cool catch line, though I don't like seeing DVXs tamed in a cage like that. ;)
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

pretty interesting, I did not know that was possible.

keep us updated. :'(
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

Sounds really good but I don't know if I want to void the waranty on my DVX. Now if it only cost like 50 bucks I might reconsider.
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

50 bucks? I'm thinking more like $1000. We'll see. Honestly I'd just like to see a clip of this uncompressed magic. So far all we've seen is a screengrab of a water bottle and a Red Hat Linux box.
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

I think we'll be seeing some clips shortly, but a lot of the final quality is going to be dependent on the work flow and skill of the person doing the postproduction work. The inceased dynamic range should be very apparent, while the increased color space and data should really shine for grading, fx, and compositing work. We can only guess about the price, but it ain't gonna be a $50 mod. I'd guess somewhere in the $300-$700 range. HDV is yet to be proven (at least to me), but it's coming up fast, so I think Reel Stream needs to preemptively price this, otherwise filmmakers may decide to sit this one out and wait for an HDV cam.
 
DV Rack

DV Rack

Think you'd be able to capture with DV Rack and this modification? If so wouldn't the picture evaluation tools be even more critical?
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

Quote from the reel-stream website about DV-Rack:

"The answer for the uncompressed footage output by Andromeda is no.

DV Rack handles DV video only(as far as i know), and the Andromeda output does not comply to any video standards, which is why it can have such increased dynamic range, color precision and resolution.

However, if you give me an idea of what tools you are most interested in, I can tell you if there is another way of accomplishing the same operation on the raw footage. For example, the frames can be analyzed and edited in programs such as photoshop directly, or any program that can handle uncompressed formats such as FCP or Apple Shake.

The output of the device are uncompressed graphic images. Any program that can do what you want on a computer image file will work. "
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

This would also solve the issue of capturing reds accurately.

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, you need to have your camera attached to a computer while shooting in order for this to work?
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

Yes. In order to capture the raw data it bypasses the in-camera processing and streams directly to a fast hard disk. This is eather with a computer or a USB hard drive from what it sounds like... It can still capture the image that the camera processes on the tape at the same time, but it sounds like that footage will look washed out...
 
Re: RealStream Andromeda

Yes, you need a computer attached to the USB 2.0 output from the Andromeda in order to capture the uncompressed frames. A G5 should have more than enough power to capture the data stream. The data stream can be throttled down to a lower sampling rate like 4:2:2 or a lower bit depth (10 bit or 8 bit) if your computer can't handle the full data stream. You should be able to use DVRack to capture the normal compressed DV stream via the firewire port, however there may be exposure issues if you're exposing for the optimal uncompressed stream.
 
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