Real life PXW-Z150 experience wanted (and maybe a little Panny DVX200 too...)

M

MEDIA101

Member
My Canon XF100 needs replacement and I've narrowed the list down to either Panasonic DVX200 or Sony PXW-Z150. The DVX200 seems to have color issues even after the last upgrade, so I'm aiming at the PXW-Z150.

One of the returning complaints about the PXW-Z150 however is the placement of the 'menu control buttons'on top of the camera which appear to be a major p.i.t.s. when shooting from a tripod.
Also: I'm shooting mainly run 'n gun stuff and need to rely on 'full-auto' quite a bit. Will this be an issue?

Does anybody have any relevant experience they like to share? :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
I'd recommend looking at the new Panasonic UX180. Should be out in a few weeks, at about the same price as the Z150, but it does UHD up to 60p (Z150 stops at 30p), and it has a 20x zoom lens that's both way wider (25mm vs 29mm) and way longer (500mm vs 350mm). Same size sensor, same f/2.8 to f/4.5 lens ramping, just a lot more lens in both directions.

Very similar in operations to a DVX200, but it's a full two pounds lighter than a DVX200, so that would certainly make a difference on an all-day handheld shoot.

Of course, if you can't wait, then it's not an option. But if you can wait a few weeks, it might be an interesting option.
 
Well, that's tough at that price point. If you have to have 4K for some reason you are very limited. Most don't need 4K, they just want 4K! I just saw it as a "in this day and age" why buy another 1080 camera. I bought the Z150 as a possible replacement for the kinds of jobs I use my AJ-PX270 for and was not happy with the Z for the reasons above. So, I guess what I'm saying is I'd rather have an AJ-PX270 than a Z150. I use my FS7 for everything it makes sense to use the FS7 for as it makes a far superior image than either, but the FS7 isn't good at most "back of the room" type work or "run and gun" so I use my Panasonic for that. So, for me, to get a camera to replace my 270 I guess I'd have to step up to a Sony PMW-300K which is nearly $8000 and I may go that route.

...or I guess the Sony PXW-X200 at under $7000 could be a solution as well. Both the 200 and 300 Sony's should make cleaner images with their 1/2" sensors. It is just hard for me to spend that kind of money on a 1080 camera and that is what is holding me back.
 
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I have had my PXW Z150 for a week and have been going through the test sequence with it. I have no issues at all with its ability to handle highlights. My needs don't make its minor shortcomings in low light situations. Just to put things in perspective, I sold my PMW 300K1 which was a fine camera for the three years but so far I prefer the z150. The 300 is a great ENG camera, but its heavy and 90% of the work I did with it was in environments with reasonable light and if I want a low light camera it will be one of my others. The z150 is a quick run and gun eng camera that provides Excellent value for the money.
As for Panasonic.....loved my dvx100 b, it replaced my Iki betacam, took my HMC150 around the world (as one of my cameras) but have not been impressed with anything they have put out since then. IMHO
 
Thank you gkantziper, Barry (also for your excellent DVX e-book and YT tutorials) and Brian for your feedback.
Good point about the 4K. I don't absolutely NEED it (yet), but feel I shouldn't buy a 1080-only camera anymore. That's why the Canon C100 fell of the shortlist. The possibility for reframing and pulling a still from 4K instead of 1080 appeals to me (for 911-type reporting, DVX200 being able to take still while recording is top notch). The low-light performance is sort of a worry, I'd love a real low-light run 'n gun king but I have seen nice low-light Z150 shots on YT so I just hope it is at least on par with the XF100.

Nobody mentioned the supposedly bad placement of the menu control buttons on top of the camera yet though?

@Barry: will the UX180 be able to take still while recording?
 
MEDIA101 said:
Nobody mentioned the supposedly bad placement of the menu control buttons on top of the camera yet though?
Click to expand...

Probably nobody mentioned it because the placement is not a big deal at all. It'd be nice if the buttons themselves had a little more rise to them, but the location is fine. I think the Z150 is a great little camera for the money and I use it frequently even though I also own several more expensive cameras. It is a really easy and versatile camera to operatore, and if you're going to run it on auto (not something I'd personally endorse) I don't you'd find a better choice for 4K.

Here's my 40 minute review of the camera. https://vimeo.com/179567188
 
Thank you Doug, that is a very eleborate introduction to the Z150, my compliments.:thumbsup:
I now full-auto is not the way, but sometimes I have to hand the camera over to a less experienced operator and... every once in a while we are where things are over in a matter of seconds and there is no time to fiddle with the camera. The Xf100's we use now do a fine job on full-auto and when there is a problem (WB) it can be fixed in post due to the 4:2:2 codec. I learned to love 4:2:2 :grin:

One quick question: When a URX-P03 (wireless receiver) is connected to the A7 series cameras, it appears the manual audio control is disabled. I _hope_ this is not the case with the Z150?
 
MEDIA101 said:
will the UX180 be able to take still while recording?
Click to expand...
I don't think so. The DVX200 can do it, but I think the UX180 can only take a still when it's playing back video. I don't think it can take a still while recording live video (or while in recording standby).
 
MEDIA101 said:
One quick question: When a URX-P03 (wireless receiver) is connected to the A7 series cameras, it appears the manual audio control is disabled. I _hope_ this is not the case with the Z150?
Click to expand...

Good news, that is not the case with the Z150. You can choose manual or automatic audio control anytime you want.
 
Doug, If I am recording HD 10-bit 4:2:2 to an external Ninja Blade via the HDMI port, what codecs are available for recording internally at the same time. The internal recording would be used as a backup.
 
nutmegger said:
Doug, If I am recording HD 10-bit 4:2:2 to an external Ninja Blade via the HDMI port, what codecs are available for recording internally at the same time. The internal recording would be used as a backup.
Click to expand...

External recording is always entirely independent from internal recording so you can use whatever codec you want onboard the camera. However, I don't think that you can ever record 10-bit 4:2:2 from the HDMI port. To be honest, I'm not sure what kind of signal comes out of the HDMI port because I don't use it and don't recall Sony ever saying what it is. I'm sure someone will jump in if they know for sure, but I doubt that the HDMI is 10-bit and it probably isn't 4:2:2 either. Even if it says it is 10-bit it is probably really just 8-bit padded out to 10-bit. My bet is that the HDMI output is 8-bit 4:2:0. But I could be wrong. That is just my guess.

But what diffference does it make? My advice is to forget about HDMI anyway. HDMI is for consumer gear only. You want to get an external recorder that can take HD-SDI. And HD-SDI from any Sony camera is going to be genuine 10-bit 4:2:2 (or better) so you don't have to wonder what it really is. And the cable won't fall out of the connector at the worst possible time!
 
I agree with Doug that HDMI is a horrible connector and that SDI is preferable. However, when talking about 4K or UHD, HDMI is pretty much all there is, so it's something that you'll have to come to terms with if you want to externally record UHD or 4K.

HD-SDI can handle up to 1080/60i, that's it. 3G-SDI can do 1080/60p. You'd need 6G-SDI to get UHD, and that's only up to 30p; you'd need 12G-SDI to get UHD/60p. The Z150 and the DVX200 have 3G-SDI only, so -- no UHD recording from those, through SDI. HDMI is the only way to go if you want UHD or 4K. The SDI port on these cameras is for 1080 only.
 
Barry makes some good points, but I will add that if you are going to shoot 4K with the Z150 you might as well just record internally. I challenge anyone to show me a side-by-side comparison of 4K internal vs. 4K external from the Z150 that looks better. And be aware that if you are sending out 4K from the camera to an external recorder or monitor you will lose the image in the viewfinder every time you hit the record button. That's a deal breaker for me. My advice is to record 4K internally and just be done with it. But if you happen to want an added layer of backup, then record HD simultaneously to an external recorder. Yeah, it won't be a 4K backup, but odds are you're never going to need it anyway.
 
Inexpensive cameras make compromises to deliver the performance they do, at the price point they are at. The Z150 may lose the viewfinder, but maybe it maintains internal recording while recording externally in that case? The DVX200 can send 10-bit out to an external recorder, and maintains its viewfinder, but in doing so it loses the ability to internally record. You can record UHD internally on the DVX200 and externally at the same time, but in that case it loses the 10-bit output.

I don't know what the Z150 records internally; the DVX200 is recording 100mbit 4:2:0 8-bit at UHD 24/25/30, and 150mbps 4:2:0 8-bit at UHD 50/60. An external recorder could accomodate 10-bit 4:2:2, but frankly, agreeing with Doug here, you're generally not going to see a big difference between internal and external recording. There *is* a difference, but is it enough of a difference to justify spending $2,000 for a recorder and media, having to wrangle an additional piece of hardware and its attendant batteries, and dealing with footage that's at least 9x as large? Maybe, if you absolutely need it, and when using VLOG it's definitely some better to record it in 10-bit, but in general I find myself using the internal recording and it's fine. Especially when the recorder is using a connector such as HDMI; I am not thrilled with the idea of having my footage at the mercy of a flimsy connection. The full-size HDMI is decent, but not great; I find the mini-HDMI and the micro-HDMI appalling and would never want to entrust my footage to a mini-HDMI or micro-HDMI connection. At least with the full-size HDMI there's "some" meat on that connection, and if you can get a locking bracket to keep the cable in place then it can become an acceptable solution.
 
I have two Z-150s and actually think the images coming from it are really nice. Certainly not the best in low-light on paper but I've had numerous events in low light and was surprised I could ramp up the gain by 9db and it looked pretty clean. I even had to ramp up to 21db gain for one event and was pleasantly surprised it held up better than I expected. Really low light shows some noise but I run a denoiser for that footage. Overall, I'm pleased with the image coming from this camera. Do I wish it had a bit longer zoom like the Panasonic? Absolutely, but the clear-image zoom more than makes up for the shorter 12x on the camera. Quite amazing technology indeed. I'm shooting 4K now all the time just so I have the option to crop in post. Wonderful option to have. Yes, the menu buttons on top are somewhat of a pain, but not a big deal to me. At least the manual audio controls on the camera are easily accessible and decent. Overall, I'm really happy with the Z-150.
 
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Folks on "the other board" have a thread about the reliability of the Z150.

Has Z150 reliability been an issue for dvxusers?

Thanks in advance.

Be well.

Rob
Smalltalk.Productions
 
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