Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

P

Policar

Carbonite Member
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

The music, pacing, and editing are pretty good. The sound could be better, but considering what you worked with, it's pretty darned good. The lighting is okay. It looks well lit in that you can see everything, but it doesn't have that hollywood three point lighting look, mostly beause you didn't use three point lighting, I suppose, but a back light to make the characters pop out at you would have given it a more professional feel.

One thing kills it for me, though, and that's the fact that you broke the 180º rule for every single shot. There are a ton of directors who break the 180º rule and pull it off (Lars van Triers comes to mind), and even Mystic River had some 180º rule breaking, but when you break the axis of action with every shot, it becomes distracting and disorienting. It still works okay, but for me...it totally pulled me out of it. The steady shots, "normal" editing, and conventional framing just don't work against unconventional editing and cinematography, imo.

Still, very well paced and edited.
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

My main comment was already touched on by Policar: you crossed the line, baby. A few times too many.
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

[quote author=Policar link=board=Clips;num=1103069171;start=0#1 date=12/14/04 at 16:34:49]The music, pacing, and editing are pretty good.  The sound could be better, but considering what you worked with, it's pretty darned good.  The lighting is okay.  It looks well lit in that you can see everything, but it doesn't have that hollywood three point lighting look, mostly beause you didn't use three point lighting, I suppose, but a back light to make the characters pop out at you would have given it a more professional feel.

One thing kills it for me, though, and that's the fact that you broke the 180º rule for every single shot.  There are a ton of directors who break the 180º rule and pull it off (Lars van Triers comes to mind), and even Mystic River had some 180º rule breaking, but when you break the axis of action with every shot, it becomes distracting and disorienting.  It still works okay, but for me...it totally pulled me out of it.  The steady shots, "normal" editing, and conventional framing just don't work against unconventional editing and cinematography, imo.  

Still, very well paced and edited.[/quote]

i thought it still worked well with the 180 degree shot rule excluding the first and second shot...
note to self: never try to break rule
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

I gotta admit, considering the lack of equipment, I thought it was pretty well done.

Yeah, the rule breaking was a little jarring, but I still liked it.

I got two questions for you.

What microphone were you using?
and Where did you get your Chinese Lantern?

Other than that, I give you props. It was fun, if a little too dramatic for something like cheating, but then thats what made it so fun.
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Brace yourselves for a newbie question - what is the 180 degree rule please?
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Not bad brandon, is this for a film class assignment? Despite the line crossing I watched it all. Take the adviced of others and improve on them. Not bad eh. Music is not bad too. Time to upgrade your Reason bro. :) keep pimin the DVX.
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

I bought a $10 chinese lantern from target and hung it on a mic stand next to the actors
Click to expand...

Duhhh, I should read slower.

still wondering about the mike though.
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

[quote author=toilet_bob link=board=Clips;num=1103069171;start=0#4 date=12/14/04 at 17:01:48]
What microphone were you using?
and Where did you get your Chinese Lantern?

[/quote]

I used an AKG C-3000b condenser mic. Its all I had really but I think if your in a controlled enviornment it can come out quite well.

I bought the chinese lantern from TARGET, but you can but them at Ikea, or anywhere for that matter. Thanks

And the other question...the 180 rule is best described by this little picture :
180degree.jpg


Technically I only broke it once setting up the third shot from the other side of the room. But since I cut to that shot every few seconds I can see how it might pose a distraction
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

It's hard to explain since it's a visual phenomenon, really, but here goes:

Let's say you're watching football and you see a player running from one side of the field to the other from a camera on the right of the field. Let's say he's running right to left.

Then you cut to a camera on the other side of the field. Now it appears that he's running from left to right. This is VERY disorienting. Similarly, if you shoot over one character's right shoulder in shot/reverse shot, you have to shoot over the other character's left shoulder. Otherwise, the characters appear to be switching places and the scene becomes spatially ambiguous. If you edit "correctly", one character always appears on the left, and the other always on the right.

You can break the line. The final scene in Casablanca (on the runway) breaks the 180º axis, despite being edited as classically as possible. Mystic River breaks the axis once in the restaurant. Most movies do a few times. The speeder bike chase in Return of the Jedi does a LOT.

Some directors revel in breaking the axis, but in Classical Hollywood, it's only rarely done, usually to make a point, or show something that otherwise could not be shown.

By the way, the editing, etc. was excellent. I don't mean to be a jerk, I just wanted to point out what I would have personally done different.
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

dude, the 180 rule is when you draw a line between your two subjects and don't cross that line with the camera. So you only 180 degrees in a circle to cover them.

It help keep the same background behind them, and helps the eyes jump between cuts.
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

I suggest you to read "The Five C's of Cinematography" by Joseph Mascelli. I know it is an old book but its content will be relevant even 100 year now. Another book can be helpful is "Film Directing Shot by Shot" by Steven Katz. I know rules are made to be broken, but you need to learn these rules so that you can break them.
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

I agree with everything, especiall the 180 rule comments. I thought it looked really good though. One question: Do you notice the dialouge kind of gets off synch in some spots. It's almost unnoticeable, but I did notice it. Thanks, and good stuff. :)
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

The 180 Rape Job is distracting. No worries, lessened learned.

I think you have a nice use of Split Edits on this one but I would suggest the use of Split Edits by cutting down on the amount you actually cut (I counted roughly 30 cuts in 1:28 seconds); music videos and action scenes have this many cuts. Sometimes, holding on a character or a characters eyeline can be pretty dramatic.

I also would suggest some mild foundation for the man's shaved head as well as the actors faces to minimize the hot spots.

Too bad you could not get the lights dimmed or turned off overhead in this one to add to the 'mystery'.

I think you did a really good job with this sans the issues listed. The msuic, although a little 'heavy' in terms of 'impending doom' was kind of cool if somewhat overtly dramatic.

Nice job. I look forward to seeing more work from you.
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

I'm going to go against the grain on the 180 rule. Because this film consists *solely* of only two characters in a direct dialogue, I don't have a problem with crossing the line. In fact, it makes things a little more unsettling. How can you get confused with *only* two characters who stay in position for the whole film? However, if this is just a scene in a longer film, than I agree, stay on one side of the line if possible.

Kudos on composing the music yourself, but it's more suitable to plotting a murder than cheating on a test. I agree with John about the lighting--way too bright, flat and bland for the menace implicit in the scene. The bald actor was intense--I liked him a lot, but both did a good job. Very nice overall effort.
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

see if you can flip the shot horizontally in post. as long as you don't see the letters on the sweatshirt, you might get away with it.

editors do it all the time. lucas recently did it for episode 3, but had to digitally move anakin's scar to the other eye.
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Thank you very much for all the education on the 180 degree rule. I don't think I've done it yet, but at least now I'll be sure not to.

Thanks sincerely guys. :D
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

It all goes back to having an understanding of the rules before breaking them. :)
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

I see you were using DVRack, how do you like it?
 
Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

Re: The Cheat: 1:30 second scene...

DV rack is INSANE! I had to borrow that laptop to use it though cause I dont have one... BTW...I did flip the necessary ones in post and its great. I just flipped it again (the whole movie) and the letters come out perfect. Im re-uploading it in a few minutes
 
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