raising the loudness of dialogue in post

[ugafan]

it's peaking at about-12db, but the rest of the dialogue isn't as loud as i want it. what is a good way to increase the volume without causing the peaks to go too high? is this a situation where i'd use a compressor or is there a better way to do this?

 

[paulears]

A compressor will indeed make the dialogue hold it's own. If there are also music and fx tracks, just compress the vocals, don't compress the output. Sometimes, compression can make some people's voices a bit muffled, so also experiment with eq.

 

[Rick R]

As stated above, a compressor and peak limiter can do wonders, providing the dialog was recorded well. If not, the process can make things worst. Inexperienced hands will often trash anything.

 

[Noiz2]

There is the "right" way to do it, it's called mixing ;~)

I'm only slightly kidding. If it's a few times that are hitting the peak then volume automation is probably the best way to go. Doing a lot manualy will probably sound better than doing in mechanically with a plugin but it might take more time than you can put in. For peal limiting I like Massey's limiter, though I think his plugins are only for ProTools.
-12 is kind of low for peaks, you can probably just bring everything up. Most broadcast standards limit peaks to some place between -3 and -6.

 

[ugafan]

i should note that when it comes to mixing, my knowledge is pretty close to zero. i currently edit with sony vegas and have no hardware to work with. would getting something like sony sound forge or avid pro tools make the job easier?

 

[ryanjf]

Certainly, buying software geared towards audio editing and mixing will always make the job easier. However, there is a learning curve to get the soundtrack you want. It might be easier to find or hire someone who specializes in audio post production who already has the software (and additional plugins) to get the job done.

 

[ugafan]

Certainly, buying software geared towards audio editing and mixing will always make the job easier. However, there is a learning curve to get the soundtrack you want. It might be easier to find or hire someone who specializes in audio post production who already has the software (and additional plugins) to get the job done.

ultimately that may be what i have to do. right now i'm kind of in the learning/practicing phase. my goal is to do a feature film, a 90 minute comedy. i have no idea how much a professional would charge for that, to do everything.

 

[clang]

...i currently edit with sony vegas and have no hardware to work with...

The good news is that Vegas has excellent built-in sound editing tools, including limiters and compressors. But I must admit that I manually fix most simple loudness problems, by adding a Volume envelope, then adding higher/lower points as required.

 

[Noiz2]

ultimately that may be what i have to do. right now i'm kind of in the learning/practicing phase. my goal is to do a feature film, a 90 minute comedy. i have no idea how much a professional would charge for that, to do everything.

For a no/low budget film the range is very wide and a lot depends on you. Things that lower the price in general are low drama and a flexible schedule. A feature is a big project and if you want someone who actually makes a living doing film sound to do it cheap then you kind of need to let them do paying work if it comes in. Also a reasonable schedule and expectations are a plus. A film typically takes about 10 - 15 man-hours per finished screen minute for sound editorial and then some time for mixing. With low budget stuff that number can come down to maybe 7-10 man-hours but much less and you are doing a lot of compromising. So with a one man crew that is a lot of time assuming a 10MH/SM your looking at around 900 hours for a full sound track, not counting music.

I would ask around early, like as soon as you have a finished script. A really good script will help a bunch. Ideally you would have your post sound person on board before you start shooting. It will save you/ them time/money if they are around for shooting. They can grab sounds from locations and get a head start on building the library for the film. Unless that are doing your production sound also they probably won't be at a lot of the shoot but they should be at any special locations. I would think twice about any that didn't want to be at any of the locations, or if they are not planning on recording something specific for your film. They might have a great library and not feel they need anything new but I don't know an editor that I consider any good that doesn't use any excuse to go out and get some new recordings.

Post people are generally not production people (and visa versa), but many can do both they are just really good at one and OK at the other. If one or the other is going to be weak I would probably put your strength with post, but that is a twisty road. You can look at as if production is good I can always get someone else to redo the post, but the fact is that it is very unlikely you will redo post so while production is really important it is "only" the dialog and there is a lot of other elements that make up the sound track. Anyway the plus to having one person do both is that any slip they make in production they know they will have to deal with in post, no handing over the files and moving on. Plus it gets them intimately involved in the film and the story before they start editing. And you get to talk concept with them well in advance of the edit and if you pool both budgets you might be able to offer a more enticing check.

If you are serious about making a feature (as in you actually want people to see it, get into festivals, and maybe make back the budget) it's not going to be cheap. I'm not sure what the bottom point is now but a few years back it was around $50,000. And that was basically not paying anybody. They started off aiming at $25,000 but soon realized that was not going to happen. One thing they did do though was to buy equipment to save on rentals and then pay some positions with that equipment after the shoot was over.

 

[Bruce Watson]

-12 is kind of low for peaks, you can probably just bring everything up. Most broadcast standards limit peaks to some place between -3 and -6.

Just want to point out that -12dbfs is typically used for capture. The point of it is to leave lots of headroom for the unexpected shout, etc.

But what you are talking about now isn't capature, it's mixing. For this, you can raise your levels up. And compress as needed. And equalize as needed. Just remember that all those tracks are additive, so don't let the mix itself clip, or exceed the limits your delivery requires.

Noiz2 is correct, I'm just reinforcing what he's saying.

 

[ugafan]

So with a one man crew that is a lot of time assuming a 10MH/SM your looking at around 900 hours for a full sound track, not counting music.

If you are serious about making a feature (as in you actually want people to see it, get into festivals, and maybe make back the budget) it's not going to be cheap. I'm not sure what the bottom point is now but a few years back it was around $50,000.

when you put it that way, it makes my offer of 90 minutes for 9 digiorno pizzas seem a tad low.