Quoting rates for narrative films

The fiction scripted narrative world seems to be the most competitive area of all in filmmaking, so that reason alone you can't expect to make the same amount per day as you would in the corporate world when starting out until you've built up a really strong track record of work on feature films and more.

So if that is a direction you wish to go in creatively you likely might need to be a bit more flexible in your rates (especially if wanting to DoP, one of the even tougher positions to break into. It truly is insane at times, for instance earlier this year I worked on a feature film doing their sound, while their DoP was shooting with an AMIRA that they'd got for free and the DoP only wanted them to get his rent paid during the month's shoot. So basically he was almost working "for free" himself, and I think the production didn't even end up paying him that in the end).

Just how low you're willing to go depends a lot on the script/director/team, as obviously if you're working at less than full rate you're in a sense "investing in their project", and does that make sense to you? For a good one yes, for a bad one... nope.
 
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NorBro said:
That's a tough one...and I wouldn't do that as it may sour the relationship a bit if you're already on the phone and dodging the question (as you're suggesting).

I would then ask how many days and what kind of equipment is necessary. Lighting and audio too? If you can't get an answer for anything then you will just have to go with the number you're most comfortable with. Or provide two...one for just the camera and one for camera/lighting/audio.

What else can you do? They are painting you in a corner.

As far as the cameras/rates...shoot with the AMIRA no matter what unless they definitely want/need 4K. Because there is no point in following that old "rule" about paying for the camera. Use the best camera you have and get the best material for yourself because if you don't someone else will anyway.
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If you're crewing the sound department as well, then you're drifting into territory where you are not at all working just as the DoP for the feature film but partially producing it as well.

Giving some names to recommend is one thing, but finding the people and organizing their budget is a totally different thing.

Nothing wrong though with producing the feature film as well, often many DoPs on very low budget indies do some of that as well, just is worthwhile going into it eyes open realizing what it is you are doing.
 
In the USA, many non-union productions may have one person doing many jobs.

One man or woman may provide all of the gear, act as the DP and camera operator, set up any lighting with an assistant or two, hire an audio person, handle all communication/money, and even find them self supervising the script/treatment.

And this can be completely separate from a producer who may not do anything but fund the entire production (which is often an executive producer but the lines are blurred in unimportant productions without rules and regulations).

So yea...you may be producing it - physically - but your name doesn't need to have that credit.
 
The last feature I DPed I put the crew together, negotiated their rates, but since I wasn't up-charging for their rates, I made sure the producers paid them instead of me paying them, as I didn't want that responsibility. From my team it was me, sound guy, lighting guy, and AC. They also had a makeup artist, set designer, and AD who I wasn't involved with crewing. The production budget was around $75k, most of which went to the crew.

Typically for corporate jobs I'll up-charge crew rates and have the client pay me, and then I pay the crew. But I make a profit off of it, so all good.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Typically for corporate jobs I'll up-charge crew rates and have the client pay me, and then I pay the crew. But I make a profit off of it, so all good.
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You take the risk, you take the reward! As if the client is late or doesn't pay, you'll be left out of pocket.
 
I don't often get phone calls, mostly emails.

But either way, my answer is always, my rate is x, but I can always be very flexible for the right project. My goal is to make sure we come up with a way to collaborate to ensure the project is done in the best way possible.

Then I ask about how many days, how many locations, how many cast, what kind of crew and gear profile they are imagining, and ask about which films, if any, they are using as reference for the look. All of this gives me an idea of the desired scope of the project. Most people who are going to be good collaborators aren't going to ask you to bring a 10ton grip truck and a technocrane for free. if they do expect that, then I already know I'm not interested.

If the conversation is going well, I'll ask about their total budget for the project. I mention something like, I just want to get a sense of the scope of the project. This isn't a bad question to ask. Again, people that don't react well to these questions are likely to not be good people to work with.

Lastly, I tell them if I'm interested and ask them to send me the script, and examples of their previous work, if they have any. You should be vetting your directors just like they are vetting DPs. Most people will do so, without asking any more about the budget, because I've already told them in the beginning that my budget is x. This number is likely to be more than they are hoping for, but the conversation doesn't end because I also say that I can be very flexible for the right project. Most people believe in their projects and believe you'll think their project is the right project so it gives them hope that you'll be able to come up with mutually beneficial terms.

Then it's a matter of reading the script, and if I like it and think it has potential to be good, I know what kind of discounts I'm willing to give.

I always consider three things before taking a job.
1. Will this pay me the money I need to survive?
2. Will this provide me with the opportunity to experiment with new tools or techniques, or learn something relevant?
3. Will this provide me with the opportunity to meet new people whom I think will be important in the future?

A job doesn't have to have all these. If it does, wow!! But even just one of these things is enough. Maybe the gig is free, and only with people I already know and don't care for (never the case), but perhaps it has an incredible gear budget with great cast.

Anyways, all that to say that for a really good project, I'm even willing to work for free. However, there is a threshold where if I go below 50% of my rates or my discounts represent a significant percentage of the total budget, I require to also come on as a producer on the project. This is only for projects I believe in, though. Most people see this as a benefit and are willing to do so. The advantage is that I can also have say in steering the ship.
 
IronFilm said:
You take the risk, you take the reward! As if the client is late or doesn't pay, you'll be left out of pocket.
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I read this and about fell in the floor. Someone that actually knows how to use the term "out of pocket" correctly. My hat is off to you, sir.
 
Ask for the script and ask what ballpark you're playing in budget-wise.
The script will tell you a lot about their expectations, (is it "Waiting For Godot", or "Waiting for Guffman")?

Just admit, you work on a sliding scale. When Toyota calls, back the money truck up. When an indie feature calls, well... there won't be a money truck, but you should be able to negotiate a fair rate. And don't forget to discuss overtime (at 10 hours, at 12 hours?), crew breaks with a decent hot meal every 6 hours, rentals, turn around, penalties, etc. There's more to negotiate than the up-front fees.
 
bill totolo said:
Ask for the script and ask what ballpark you're playing in budget-wise.
The script will tell you a lot about their expectations, (is it "Waiting For Godot", or "Waiting for Guffman")?

Just admit, you work on a sliding scale. When Toyota calls, back the money truck up. When an indie feature calls, well... there won't be a money truck, but you should be able to negotiate a fair rate. And don't forget to discuss overtime (at 10 hours, at 12 hours?), crew breaks with a decent hot meal every 6 hours, rentals, turn around, penalties, etc. There's more to negotiate than the up-front fees.
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Truth
 
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